Evolution X officially for sale in Nippon today...

[blacksheep]

Mitsu's official press release:

http://media.mitsubishi-motors.com/pressrelease/e/products/detail1682.html

Review:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070927/FREE/70927003/1065

Now - IF you want to read more reviews - google it. There are lots of initial reviews from US magazines that are available online - while the car is slower than the IX in a straight line, apparently its 2 secs quicker around the same track due to the fact it has 2 piece rotors, lighter wheels, lighter engine, 60% more body rigidity, etc etc


http://corism.221616.com/articles/0000067577/crsm0000000000.jpg

http://www.fastlanedaily.com/ has a short video clip about it!

Interesting stuff, curious to see what the aftermarket will do for this thing!

Thought I'd share!

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

the huge front always reminded me of the front on the srt-4's, now the rims do too...

...cant wait to see videos of these posted on youtube seein wut they can do...:smile:

[PHAT MATT]

reminds me of a charger

[erok]

I want one for my family car!

[ej8mando]

uggggggssssssslllllllyyyyyyyyyy:thumbsdow

[SanSational]

Doesn't look too bad. It's kinda grown on me.

[Prez]

reminds me of a charger

If your high on crack, maybe.

[SanSational]

Body style reminds me of a Lexus IS250 (except IS250's are SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW)

[nate2k5]

reminds me of a charger

it should remind you more of an avenger then...but yah they fucked it up, now it needs a drop bad ha

[blacksheep]

It looks like they combined the IS250, the Acura TL and the Mazda 6 and produced this thing. The sides are rear are very mazda6, TL and IS looking IMHO.

I am just not as excited as when I saw the VIII and IX, doesnt make me want to sell a kidney and run to the dealership....

[ej8mando]

it looks like its mad:toothless

[erok]

it should remind you more of an avenger then...but yah they fucked it up, now it needs a drop bad hano joke it looks like a 4x4 which would probally be good for some snow drifts

[Prez]

no joke it looks like a 4x4 which would probally be good for some snow drifts

Like this. :)

http://se7enpc.com/images/snow1.jpg

http://se7enpc.com/images/snow5.jpg

[erok]

Like this. :)

http://se7enpc.com/images/snow1.jpg

http://se7enpc.com/images/snow5.jpgYes for sure!

[ej8mando]

^^loveing that picture:thumbsup:

[Prez]

http://se7enpc.com/images/snow4.jpg

I heart taking pics.

Wait till you see what I have plan for Monday nights photos. ;)

[WHOMIKEJOBES]

This thing would be fun in the snow :thumbsup:

[ej8mando]

this thing would do me some good right now i tryed 2 go ot work and my car just sat there had 2 call off:hithead:

[2point]

:thumbsup:Cool forest Road Picture:thumbsup:


the new Evo X is growing on me now.

18x8.5 rims = cool! 18" tires are expensive though! 265/35/18 love for r comps:cool:
Can't use 17's cuz of the the big brakes but the MR gets 2 pc rotors:thumbsup:
sounds like the MR only has the BBS forged wheels, tranny, shocks and 2pc brakes to it's advantage over the base model.

FYI the new evo weighs about the same as the new Nissan 350Z nissmo (~3550lbs). You'd think Nissan would be able to get that car around 3300lbs

The AP2 S2000 CR (club racer) only weighs like 2800lbs :eek: but it has no AC or Powersteering haha.

The New lexus ISF is TITS but it is big $

[blacksheep]

Ryan - The new STi is better, easier to tune and lighter as well. I am a die hard mitsu guy and all as everyone knows, but if I could buy one, I'd buy the new STi.

[Prez]

Ryan - The new STi is better, easier to tune and lighter as well. I am a die hard mitsu guy and all as everyone knows, but if I could buy one, I'd buy the new STi.

I have to agree. As the spec sheet shows the new STI is going to be the winner for once.

The last true Evo is the IX. Get in line, the price will climb on the VIII's and IX's once the X hits and people realize it's a tad bit less worthless version of the MazdaSpeed 6; which is almost entirely fucking worthless unless used as a DD.

[2point]

Ryan - The new STi is better, easier to tune and lighter as well. I am a die hard mitsu guy and all as everyone knows, but if I could buy one, I'd buy the new STi.

Well, when I consider the STi vs Evo battle I definitely take into account what car would be a better track warrior.. . In regards to the 08 EVO vs the 08 STi, I can’t say which one will be better yet. Will I dump the 35-40Gs on a new one? Probably not.. . I’d rather lease a new 135i BMW for $600/mo and have twin turbos to play with!

In regards to the EVO 9 MR vs say a 04-06 STi – I still can’t decide which car I’d rather track but the following is an interesting read. I do know however I’ve heard of more STis having problems than EVOs. They both have crappy mac strut suspensions but racers seem to make them work well and they do the M3s justice as well. I like that the EVO has a longer wheelbase though for high speed stability and drifting control.

I have the latest article in Modified Mag about the 04/05 STi getting tuned by AMS racing. In short they got 340whp and 400trq without upgrading injectors, fuel pump or intercooler. The point of the article "Maybe the STi is a better bargain for big power than the EVO"

They stepped the tuning process out like this
1.) Stock baseline run 258whp and 261trq
- Just a tune @ 19PSI and A/F at 11.0:1 (Very Safe) = 285whp and 317trq

2.) Catback 2-4whp only b/c the way the motor is and the stock exhaust aint bad for lower hp numbers.

3.) Add AEM Cold Air intake = 10whp mid peak and 20whp at redline

4.) Adding 4" turbo XS Downpipe and mid section race pipe = no cats!
- outcome was awesome = increases everywhere and turbo spool comes on much quicker by 500rpm which would make in town driving much more fun.
- biggest was about 40whp at 3,500rpm and in the range of 15-20whp from 4k to 5200 and being miniscule from there on out

5.) add MBC for 19.5 psi = gains of 5-11whp from 3700-6500rpm (311whp and 355trq) reference to a C5z06 trq figure here

6.) removing TGV things in the intake ports - terrible task to remove they say and gave them minor gains to peaks of 318whp and 360trq.
- They say this can wait till later or if you have the motor out.. .

7.) 21psi tune on 93 octane (I wonder if it had ethanol in it??)
- 5 Heat soaked dyno runs came back with a safe 328whp and 370trq.
- At this point the EVO at the around the same boost is down by 40trq they say.
- Also AMS says at this point, the EVO would have to step up to an intercooler upgrade to pull this much power out.
- I don't have a EVO graph next to me to compare but I think the big trq gains are in a lower rpm range than a road racer would be in to even matter.. . .
- when short shifting at say 6200, 500rpm before the car's redline at 6800 you would fall to around 4500 rpm, right where the torque is dropping big time from ~ 350. So for a second you will have 20 more trq than the EVO possibly.

8.) adding Vibrant exhaust header
- spool slightly slower
- huge trq and whp gains tapering down from 3700 - 5500 and further tapering down to about nothin at redline
- we are now at a sage tune on pump gas, 21psi and slightly pulled back timing to get 15whp and 34trq at the peaks for ~340whp and 400trq at the peaks.
- adding front mount would get you more than 350whp and 410trq

[bruckhoffer]

good info and interesting to read. not a fan of the new evo at all. maybe it will grow on me? but i doubt it.

[SanSational]

Prez, sell me your Evo

[Prez]

blah blah blah

First the 135i while a great car won't be anything special for maybe a year until after released to see if there is anything that can be done cheaply. I love them and want one but time will tell what the market will be like on those.

As far as the STI getting more TQ, remember it is a 2.5L they are working with vs. the mitsu 2.0L. And thats all it really has over the evo as far as when it comes to mods. The mitsu will always make the same amount of HP but less TQ due to it being down .5L .

That and the Evo is WAY cheaper to mod.




Prez, sell me your Evo

It's always for sale.

[2point]

EDIT: You can blah blah blah yourself Prez. Add a list of what you think it cost to mod an EVO. I'm not arguing here just adding a reality check on cost for all to compare.. . Only thing I don't know much about is getting a cheap/free ECU re-flash on either car.

In the Article AMS said they put the 340whp and 400trq with under $2,200 worth of parts, not including labor. Lets see what it would really cost though.. .

Cost breakdown


1 - $250 - AEM Cold Air Intake - Not sure if it would work on Front Mount intercooler setups though. If you planned on FMIC then maybe a $150 short ram will do. http://www.modacar.com/products/Subaru/Impreza/AirIntakes/
2 - $99 - $135 - Manual Boost controller Hallman or http://www.turboxs.com/shop_prod.php?what_category=1
3A - Reflash ECU ? $ ? Most of the time for VW and BMW guys this is like $300
- Dyno time $100-$150 and hr for A/F adjustment. Probably a $300 session for best performance tune when you go to someone that knows what they are doing
3B - $700 - Access Port Self Reflash tuner - Stg1 and stg 2 maps are free from Cobb tuning and you can share maps with friends - just might be the best way to go if you don't want to get on a dyno.
4 - $1,050 - 4" Downpipe and 3"exhaust without cat - Add $100 for a cat http://www.turboxs.com/shop_prod1.php?what_category=8
5- $790 - Perrin equal length exhaust headers - $790 - http://t-rexmotors.com/sp-bin/spirit?PAGE=270&CATALOG=5
6 - $300 - If you didn't do all the mods at once, you have another Reflash or dyno tune session for $300
7 - $200-$300 - Personally.. . add this for Labor and for a safe tune I'd just take the car to AMS and have them install most equipment and tune it


So the way I see it
Just parts = $2100 - $2400
Tuning and install = $300 to $1,000 - depending on if you get the Cobb Access Port Tuner

Basically still a bargain at ~$3400 to get that much added power safely.

EVO is
$200 Intake
$150 boost guage
$100 Manual Boost Controller but I'd rather run a Apexi AVCR or equivilant quality
$415 bigger injectors (680 or 780cc) + 255 walbro + instal kit Buschur Racing Deal
**$290 AMS Fuel Pressure Reg Kit - could Maybe do without
**$175 AMS Fuel Rail - Could maybe do without
$900 full exhaust - good deal through AMS right now
$800 intercooler core and Lower IC pipe - AMS has a great deal on it right now
$275 Upper IC pipe kit
$250 Mini battery and mounting kit
$650 HKS Cams
$600 reflash X 2 probably for timing of adding parts

I come up with about $4805 all together here

Bushur basically states $4,000-$4200 for Bushur Racing Stage 4

Add $2100 for AEM EMS with wideband


SOOO EVO vs STI bargain Power
~$2,500-3,400 vs $4,000 - 4,800

[2point]

I like to do things with quality parts so if I was building the STi it would have more than $3400 into it for that power level.. .

I'd add have a FMIC kit - $1,200
Also a larger Radiator - $400 +
And most likely the clutch is going to need replaced on either ride so that is a variable $ amount I wont add.

so I'd be sitting around $4800 on either car.. . But the Evo wouldn't have AEM EMS for that money.. . The STi would have the one up with the Cobb Access Port Tuner

I haven't heard of many people requiring a larger Radiator b/c the car was already designed to have a FMIC blocking it as well as it has a factory oil cooler system.

[blacksheep]

1) You don't need fuel rail or fuel kit short unless you go over 750 hp.
2) You don't need that 3" exhaust they sell. Prez runs a full 3" stainless ebay catless turbo-back which is 235 shipped - been tested and proven on Evom by shops like CBRD - Chad Block is an ALMS tuner and knows his stuff
3) having run more than 1 AVC-R, its a nightmare compared to the Greddy EBC or something like the truboost which is my new EBC of choice. Prez runs a MBC which was 55 bux and he does just fine. No need for scramble boost or any of the logging of the AVC-R when we do that with Evoscan (20 bux) and a tactrix cable ($95). We do all our own logging and tuning after the purchase of a $50 base flash.
4) AMS FMIC is overrated. , so is Buschur. Injen makes an intake, upper and lower FMIC pipe combo for 300 bux which is proven to handle over 500 hp and run 10's per TTP. Also, the stock FMIC can handle upto 500 hp, no need to upgrade it unless yo upgrade turbos. ETS is much cheaper and my FMIC solution of choice.
5) Mini battery is not needed with the injen piping. Prez runs this piping as well.
6) HKS Cams overrated - GSC and BC make killer cams in use. My choice is XS Engineering 272's which are HKS rip-offs with a more agrresive exhaust cam ($375)
7) Stock intake is proven to handle 500 hp as well. All you need is a filter element. The aftermarket is a noise maker and actually gets hotter based on IAT logging.

I can keep going on and on with that list you have listed, dude. Don't go by magazines and big shop builders, Evo can be modded for much less and be dead reliable - check out Evom. I have modded more than 1 Evo I have owned and over 10 gvr4's and 2 DSM's - I can talk Mitsus all day long... :)

For 750 bux - what Prez has about in power mods, you have a pretty potent Evo which runs mid 12's - has multiple time slips. Also does well at the auto-x too! :)

EDIT - And I know AMS all too well - Martin and I went to ISU together, I have known him from before he started with DSM's and Evo's. I have a few AMS parts I have purchased and would recommend, but in general their stuff is overpriced. But, they have created a name for themselves and people buy it, more power to them. When I get tuned, I will go to AMS to use their dyno and trust Martin with my car, thats for sure!

[blacksheep]

I like to do things with quality parts so if I was building the STi it would have more than $3400 into it for that power level.. .

I'd add have a FMIC kit - $1,200
Also a larger Radiator - $400 +
And most likely the clutch is going to need replaced on either ride so that is a variable $ amount I wont add.

so I'd be sitting around $4800 on either car.. . But the Evo wouldn't have AEM EMS for that money.. . The STi would have the one up with the Cobb Access Port Tuner

I haven't heard of many people requiring a larger Radiator b/c the car was already designed to have a FMIC blocking it as well as it has a factory oil cooler system.

STi's don't have a factory air to air oil cooler. Evo's do. Ask Jamie at the track with the black STi - he just added one last season.

Evo's are running great without EMS, dude. You need EMS on the Evo only when you go above 1000 cc injectors, upto 880's can be calibrated with ECUFLASH which Prez and I run.

ECUFLASH allows for running of several maps, but AP is only better as it switches maps automatically. We have gotten the art of switching maps to about 3-5 mins on the Evo.

[Prez]

2point I typed blah blah blah, because I didn't want the entire HUGE post to be requoted again is all. I ddidn't mean it the way you took it.

Secondly. The EVO is way cheaper to mod if you know the 4G63. If you listen to the shops of course it's going to cost more. But still in your comparison the Evo was cheaper.

An again I have 750 in go fast parts. Thats it. 12.51-12.62 consitantly. Not bad at all for very little. And she does alright in autox, and great in HPDE from what has been shown in the community.

KC has covered the rest.

PS> The cobb AP is a piece of shit. You don't need that thing for the Evo as you se ECU flash. Search EvoM. There are many 600HP evos on stock ecu using the ECU flash.

[blacksheep]

Yes, They will hit showrooms this spring....

[Prez]

EVO is
$368 Intake/UICP/LICP - http://lancershop.com/customer/product.php?productid=1142&cat=0&page=1
$60 boost guage - Stewart Warner - http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/sw/swb114376.htm
$70 Manual Boost Controller - http://lancershop.com/customer/product.php?productid=387&cat=0&page=1
$98 fuel pump - Vendors on EvoM
$223 full exhaust - Ebay 3" TBE - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lancer-Evo-8-VIII-Turbo-Back-Catback-Exhaust-Downpipe_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ015Q QitemZ250195370776QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
$350 Cams - used all the time on EvoM
$90 reflash Cable - http://www.tactrix.com/product_info.php?products_id=34
$00 reflash software - http://www.openecu.org/index.php?title=EcuFlash
$50 reflash - http://ttp-engineering.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=265&osCsid=03fb19354cfb2602e5ddb69866e02515

This list will get your 340WHP on an Evo if not a bit more. Maybe not 400TQ but it's no 2.5L like the STI.

And this cost - $1309. So you just saved 3K if not more over the STI in which you can now spend on a GT35R.

And this is basically my mods list as well minus the cams. And I got a deal on the Injen stuff.

[blacksheep]

EVO is
$368 Intake/UICP/LICP - http://lancershop.com/customer/product.php?productid=1142&cat=0&page=1
$60 boost guage - Stewart Warner - http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/sw/swb114376.htm
$70 Manual Boost Controller - http://lancershop.com/customer/product.php?productid=387&cat=0&page=1
$98 fuel pump - Vendors on EvoM
$223 full exhaust - Ebay 3" TBE - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lancer-Evo-8-VIII-Turbo-Back-Catback-Exhaust-Downpipe_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ015Q QitemZ250195370776QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
$350 Cams - used all the time on EvoM
$90 reflash Cable - http://www.tactrix.com/product_info.php?products_id=34
$00 reflash software - http://www.openecu.org/index.php?title=EcuFlash
$50 reflash - http://ttp-engineering.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=265&osCsid=03fb19354cfb2602e5ddb69866e02515

This list will get your 340WHP on an Evo if not a bit more. Maybe not 400TQ but it's no 2.5L like the STI.

And this cost - $1309. So you just saved 3K if not more over the STI in which you can now spend on a GT35R.

And this is basically my mods list as well minus the cams. And I got a deal on the Injen stuff.

You can run upto 27 psi safely - Jeremy did get a super sweet LM1 wideband as a gift from me. That helps us tune in case you are wondering - my sniffer doesnt do well enough to tell what the lambdas are...:roflmao:

[Prez]

Woops missed something.

You will need a better DV on the 8's to hold the upped boost.

TTP has the forge Evo15 DV on sale every now and again for 60 bux which is what I paid.

[2point]

Thanks for adding well needed input:thumbsup: I was kiddin around basically with the blah blah as well.. .

I know that things can be done cheaper and easier than what shops line out.. . They do this to make money and I'd do it too if I were them.

I wouldn't rely on flashes from someone else though. I still think fine tuning is very important. Every motor can run different.

I'm not a fan of tube and fin intercooler that the EVO has.. . But like you said, it can take 500hp but I wonder how much better intake temps can be with something else when pushing 21-23 PSI all day long at the race track.. .

Later magn!

[Prez]

I wouldn't rely on flashes from someone else though. I still think fine tuning is very important. Every motor can run different.


The 50 dollar TTP flash gets your car close to the mark others are at. It's incredibly safe. You then go out and do a few pulls and log the results. E-mail the logs back to TTP. TTP then adjusts to make the tune more efficient. You can do this 3 times with in that price I believe.

Also after then you have a safe point at which to start fine tuning it yourself if you wish to do so.

[blacksheep]

Thanks for adding well needed input:thumbsup: I was kiddin around basically with the blah blah as well.. .

I know that things can be done cheaper and easier than what shops line out.. . They do this to make money and I'd do it too if I were them.

I wouldn't rely on flashes from someone else though. I still think fine tuning is very important. Every motor can run different.

I'm not a fan of tube and fin intercooler that the EVO has.. . But like you said, it can take 500hp but I wonder how much better intake temps can be with something else when pushing 21-23 PSI all day long at the race track.. .

Later magn!

Umm - :spoiled: - IAT is not as much as a concern as you need to worry more about pressure drop , champ. Any bigger FMIC is guaranteed to have pressure drop - lackof boost, spool and throttle response. You also need to consider the A/R of your turbo and the outlet diameter. Even GT35R's run 2.5" outlets. Unless you have a bigger turbo, no need for bigger FMIC's, pleople run 30 psi on Evo green with stock FMIC and trap 10 sec timeslips....Throwing parts on randomly is pointless. Again manufacturers won't tell you disadvantages of a bigger FMIC. Also FMIC will require tuning.

A base flash is a base flash is a base flash. We fine tune flashes as well - we add/retard timing, add boost and add fuel where needed based on our logs. Now, dyno tuning is great for WOT runs, but road tuning is pretty useful. Prez and I have logged miles of driving around to see how the car responds with sudden bursts of accelaration to see what the knock is, where we see dips in AFR's etc to make sure it works well...Plus, we modify parameters like the stutterbox, redline etc as well. I don't recommend someone try this without basic tuning knowledge. I am no expert - AEM EMS is another animal altogether and Prez has more experience than me with Megaquirt etc...So, I'll leave tuning talk to him.

[2point]

Umm - :spoiled: - IAT is not as much as a concern as you need to worry more about pressure drop , champ. Any bigger FMIC is guaranteed to have pressure drop - lackof boost, spool and throttle response.

I don't necessarily agree fully with either of those statements accept that a poorly chosen FMIC will give you pressure drop and so on. It can happen but wont necessarily if the right core is used compared to stock, for the same turbo. I do have experience with turbos as well :wink: I've owned a few and played many.

1.) Going back to what I said previously in another post about the FMIC. I only stated that an intercooler was needed on the EVO to match the STi's power at + 340whp b/c this is what I read from AMS's article and what I C on their website, Buscher’s and others (Not Forums) Will I continue to believe it is a must?? NO, b/c I'd like to see hard data, not just some company telling me you have to do it.. .

2.) some intercoolers are just better than others, size for size a tube and fin setup is less efficient "typically" than a bar and plate design. BUT depending on how the bar and plate is made, it can have less pressure drop or less cooling capacity by simply varying the ratio of "Air" cross tube area with the amount and type of "cooling" fins perpendicular to the air flow. EX. For an STI upgrade FMIC, PERRIN states one of their designs only yields 0.5 psi loss at 20PSI. Most likely the stock EVO Tube and fin has a larger drop than that. 1-2PSI is very common.

A problem with going to a intercooler like the Perrin "might" be that you might have very little pressure drop and cold AIT but now my WATER temps are too high b/c it's blocking too much air flow to my radiator. Lack of "cooling" fin area will do this.. . I've seen it happen.

3.) IAT does matter on any engine. Too high and you are more susceptible to detonation especially if you are not using a MAP based system. The EVO does not use a MAP based system. In short, the MAF counts the air coming into the turbo and tunes for it but once it hits the manifold the EVO ECU doesn't know what exactly is coming in anymore, the air mass is different by the time it hits the intake manifold. AN AEM EMS MAP BASED SYSTEM IS BETTER THAN ANY STOCK MAF SYSTEM ON ANY CAR. Is it a must?.. . NO.. . But when you are pushing turbos out of their efficiency ranges it does become a better/safer system to run though.. .

If MITSU designed FMIC/Turbo system to be able to perform to the very max of it's turbo capabilities at "heat soak" then the intercooler should NOT need to be changed out.. . This reasoning would lead anyone to believe that the stock intercooler is fine for the EVO until a larger turbo is upgraded OR you are pushing boost to a point on the stock turbo that it is superheating the air and the intercooler or any intercooler for that fact just might not be able to cut it.

[blacksheep]

I don't necessarily agree fully with either of those statements accept that a poorly chosen FMIC will give you pressure drop and so on. It can happen but wont necessarily if the right core is used compared to stock, for the same turbo. I do have experience with turbos as well :wink: I've owned a few and played many.

1.) Going back to what I said previously in another post about the FMIC. I only stated that an intercooler was needed on the EVO to match the STi's power at + 340whp b/c this is what I read from AMS's article and what I C on their website, Buscher’s and others (Not Forums) Will I continue to believe it is a must?? NO, b/c I'd like to see hard data, not just some company telling me you have to do it.. .

2.) some intercoolers are just better than others, size for size a tube and fin setup is less efficient "typically" than a bar and plate design. BUT depending on how the bar and plate is made, it can have less pressure drop or less cooling capacity by simply varying the ratio of "Air" cross tube area with the amount and type of "cooling" fins perpendicular to the air flow. EX. For an STI upgrade FMIC, PERRIN states one of their designs only yields 0.5 psi loss at 20PSI. Most likely the stock EVO Tube and fin has a larger drop than that. 1-2PSI is very common.

A problem with going to a intercooler like the Perrin "might" be that you might have very little pressure drop and cold AIT but now my WATER temps are too high b/c it's blocking too much air flow to my radiator. Lack of "cooling" fin area will do this.. . I've seen it happen.

3.) IAT does matter on any engine. Too high and you are more susceptible to detonation especially if you are not using a MAP based system. The EVO does not use a MAP based system. In short, the MAF counts the air coming into the turbo and tunes for it but once it hits the manifold the EVO ECU doesn't know what exactly is coming in anymore, the air mass is different by the time it hits the intake manifold. AN AEM EMS MAP BASED SYSTEM IS BETTER THAN ANY STOCK MAF SYSTEM ON ANY CAR. Is it a must?.. . NO.. . But when you are pushing turbos out of their efficiency ranges it does become a better/safer system to run though.. .

If MITSU designed FMIC/Turbo system to be able to perform to the very max of it's turbo capabilities at "heat soak" then the intercooler should NOT need to be changed out.. . This reasoning would lead anyone to believe that the stock intercooler is fine for the EVO until a larger turbo is upgraded OR you are pushing boost to a point on the stock turbo that it is superheating the air and the intercooler or any intercooler for that fact just might not be able to cut it.

Umm - while the Evo does not have a MAP sensor, it does have an MDP sensor which works with the MAF.

A MAF is so much user friendly and again the Evo MAF will work over 500 hp. Have you have an EMS powered vehicle? Trying daily driving one. An EMS doesnt not compensate as well for humidity, etc. Its a PITA. While EMS pulls more power, its way too much work even when dyno tuned.

When the turbo is out of its effiency range, Its over anyways. Who gives a rats ass about the FMIC at that point?

Honestly, none of this matters. I can sit and recite everything I know about heat sock, compressor maps, cooling area, fin design etc etc, but I have other priorities and too lazy
- So, I will state what Jeremy and I have been trying to say:

- An Evo can be modded for much less than any STi
- Dollar for dollar, the Evo will respond better to mods than any STi. You put 3K in a STi and the same 3K in an Evo, the Evo will give you more bang for the buck.

Jeremy and I know a majority of the STi owners in this town and the mods they have (from built motors to bolt-ons) and they (the non-fanatical) ones will admit the Evo is more moddable and responds better and is cheaper to mod. Price cams for the STi from Crawford, APS or Cozzy and price Evo cams...you'll see what I mean.

The Evo X is a heavier car. Its semi-open deck'd aluminum block cannot handle boost like the 4G63 can. The 08 STi has less electronics and is possibly more moddable. Its lighter and possibly more rigid. The 08 STi is a better car. But the Evo will own an 07 and less STi (excluding spec C which isnt available).

Look at every Evo vs STi shootout and in drag or road course, the Evo wins. Only time Evo has lost was due to rules regarding sound ordinance at Laguna Seca. The Evo is loud as fawk and Tim's car at MAM is loud. My "pinto" should be louder :wink:

[2point]

good discusion:thumbsup:

I understand what you mean with the AEM EMS but MAP systems are still far superior for tuning and RACE TRACK warriors.. . Many cars don't run MAFs these days. But that's another discussion for another day. The MAF on the EVO works good enough though.

[blacksheep]

:thumbsup:good discusion:thumbsup:

I understand what you mean with the AEM EMS but MAP systems are still far superior for tuning and RACE TRACK warriors.. . Many cars don't run MAFs these days. But that's another discussion for another day. The MAF on the EVO works good enough though.

hell yes, the MAF works well, man! We plan on pushing the MAF to its limits and the stock ECU in the Eb-oh project, bro.

ECUFlash/Evoscan are pretty cool tools. That way it prevents us from going crazy with our timing - quickest way to make a 4g63 go :bye: - excessive advance or leaning the sucka out. Wer can show it to you sometime - for what its worth!

:thumbsup:

[SanSational]

HEY, I WANNA SELL MY Si TO GET AN EVO. PREFERRABLY PREZ's! DOES ANYONE THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA?

[blacksheep]

HEY, I WANNA SELL MY Si TO GET AN EVO. PREFERRABLY PREZ's! DOES ANYONE THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA?

Please go back to you honda section, kid! :bye: First off, maybe use some of that money to buy a new keyboard coz your caps lock is broke!:explode:

[SanSational]

I was being sarcastic with having the CAPS Lock key on. I'm not sure I understand you, KC. You diss on me modifying an FWD Honda to make it fast. Then I say I want to upgrade and you tell me to go back to Hondas. :spoiled:

[2point]

:thumbsup:

hell yes, the MAF works well, man! We plan on pushing the MAF to its limits and the stock ECU in the Eb-oh project, bro.

ECUFlash/Evoscan are pretty cool tools. That way it prevents us from going crazy with our timing - quickest way to make a 4g63 go :bye: - excessive advance or leaning the sucka out. Wer can show it to you sometime - for what its worth!

:thumbsup:

yeah, I'd like to see that stuff. I never have seen that particular setup before.. . Back in 03-04 I was playin with MR2 and 04-05 I was building K20 Honda while all the EVO guys around town weren't using those scan tools and were upgrading cams and shit.. . I never got into the EVO b/c it was too pricey for me at that time.

Through more talk, the 05-07 EVO sound like something I might buy next year. Not quite sure what the advantages are of the 08 Sti over the 06-07 are yet but I'll keep researching.

Couple more questions for the gallery here.

1.) Was there a front LSD option in any of the models except the MR edition?
- if so, what years and models? I heard some RS models had a front LSD
2.) When did stock clutches get better in the EVO or did they?
- I heard/scene a lot of people go through them in the 03/04 model
3.) Do you know what's been the clutch of choice for
- Cost Value?
- Med HP racing type?
4.) So the new EVO X motor is Alluminum - I don't think it will hold boost as well but do you have any links to reading about that engine. I'm thinkin the same thing you are, it's not going to hold as much boost/HP

[Prez]

1.) Was there a front LSD option in any of the models except the MR edition?
- if so, what years and models? I heard some RS models had a front LSD

The 05 and 06 have the LSD. All models.

2.) When did stock clutches get better in the EVO or did they?
- I heard/scene a lot of people go through them in the 03/04 model

n00bs go through them. I'm on the stock one at 30K. And have over 50 launches easy. If you don't know how to drive AWD then you'll go through the clutch fast. The Evo was my 3rd AWD 4G63 so I had practice.

3.) Do you know what's been the clutch of choice for
- Cost Value?
- Med HP racing type?

This is largely dependent on your budget. Anything from 500 for a decent ACT to 2500 for baller ones.

4.) So the new EVO X motor is Alluminum - I don't think it will hold boost as well but do you have any links to reading about that engine. I'm thinkin the same thing you are, it's not going to hold as much boost/HP.

There is no hard evidence yet as they have yet to hit the hands of tuners who will find the breaking point.

[blacksheep]

I was being sarcastic with having the CAPS Lock key on. I'm not sure I understand you, KC. You diss on me modifying an FWD Honda to make it fast. Then I say I want to upgrade and you tell me to go back to Hondas. :spoiled:

And I am not sure I understand you, Andrew. I have heard you say time and time again that you hate hondas and are so tired of the scene (including on my facebook wall), yet you do nothing. Best way put - "shit or get off the pot". Case in point - Casey - he did something about it, ya know? He is selling his shit and looking for something different. So, thats a good example of an option for you. :thumbsup:

secondly, you come and ask in this thread where we talk about the merits of the Evo (possibly only thread on the board) - thats like walking into a catholic church and asking if I can be christian - DUH! Of course.....no need to even ask. We preach the Evo just like others preach Hondas. To each his own religion! :)

Thirdly - This board has hardly any good or techincal posts. We were having a decent conversation - no need to jack it and take off-topic. Atleast say something valuable, if need be and then make a joke, ya know?

last but not the least - Not sounding like a dick - I would hate for Prez to sell his Evo to you as I would lose my only Evo compadre who loves these cars like I do and I am not sure if thats even a smart option for you with where you are in your life right now. A $450 car payment when you are 19 FTMFL, yo!

Again, not trying to be a dick, just letting you know, bro! :thumbsup:

:cheers:

[blacksheep]

1.) Was there a front LSD option in any of the models except the MR edition?
- if so, what years and models? I heard some RS models had a front LSD

The 05 and 06 have the LSD. All models.

2.) When did stock clutches get better in the EVO or did they?
- I heard/scene a lot of people go through them in the 03/04 model

n00bs go through them. I'm on the stock one at 30K. And have over 50 launches easy. If you don't know how to drive AWD then you'll go through the clutch fast. The Evo was my 3rd AWD 4G63 so I had practice.

3.) Do you know what's been the clutch of choice for
- Cost Value?
- Med HP racing type?

This is largely dependent on your budget. Anything from 500 for a decent ACT to 2500 for baller ones.

4.) So the new EVO X motor is Alluminum - I don't think it will hold boost as well but do you have any links to reading about that engine. I'm thinkin the same thing you are, it's not going to hold as much boost/HP.

There is no hard evidence yet as they have yet to hit the hands of tuners who will find the breaking point.


Clutch: Yes, 03 had no RS model. 04 came out with RS and LSD. 04 MR's did too. 05 and up all have helical LSD's.

With HPDE/track use, the clutch will hold a lot longer. Tim is still on his stock clutch, so thats proof enough coz he works that car out! :)

Yes, 4b11 block is AL, but I am yet to see pics of the motor. Its supposedly a semi-closed deck for the Evo X. Then can make power with the right mods - honda style sleeves etc, but some AL blocks like the 03-04 cobras can take a beating, so its just hard to say right now.

[CaseBone]

I was being sarcastic with having the CAPS Lock key on. I'm not sure I understand you, KC. You diss on me modifying an FWD Honda to make it fast. Then I say I want to upgrade and you tell me to go back to Hondas. :spoiled:

Not to gang up on you as well Andrew but you even told me in person you were sick of all the honda peeps and their roll race b.s. aaaand you posted on KC's facebook about it. I was not only sick of the scene in a way but also sick of the restrictions the Honda has. My build was by no means a budget build and I found that out later and the car would have been extremely uncomfortable so this next time around I will be looking for something that can make hella power and be nice to drive as well. Maybe you should sit down and evaulate your options?!:thumbsup:

[Prez]

A $450 car payment when you are 19 FTMFL, yo!

:cheers:

It's 500 and thats not insurance, gas, or maintenance yet. So around 575 or more a month just to have it sit in a garage is what you would be needing to devote to the car at minimum.

If you want to drive it in the winter you need ot have a set of winter tires so another 500 in just spare tires sitting around. ETC... the car is not cheap to own. But fun and preformace comes at a price.

My loan is at 5.8% too which is going to be damn hard to get for someone now. So expect more.

And if you want to mod it well thats also more out of pocket.

[SanSational]

And I am not sure I understand you, Andrew. I have heard you say time and time again that you hate hondas and are so tired of the scene (including on my facebook wall), yet you do nothing.

Who said my car isn't up for sale?

secondly, you come and ask in this thread where we talk about the merits of the Evo (possibly only thread on the board) - thats like walking into a catholic church and asking if I can be christian - DUH! Of course.....no need to even ask. We preach the Evo just like others preach Hondas. To each his own religion! :)

The title of this thread was that the Evo X was for sale in Nippon that day... then it went off-topic before I got there. Why not make a new thread about the merits of the Evo?

Thirdly - This board has hardly any good or techincal posts. We were having a decent conversation - no need to jack it and take off-topic. Atleast say something valuable, if need be and then make a joke, ya know?

Let's see, something valuable... I'm tired of walking into my house every night constantly paranoid with the fact that even thought I have a full-alarm on my car, kill switches and it being blocked in, my Si is still one of the most stolen cars in America. Long live the Evo!

(1)last but not the least - Not sounding like a dick - I would hate for Prez to sell his Evo to you as I would lose my only Evo compadre who loves these cars like I do and I am not sure if thats even a smart option for you with where you are in your life right now. (2) A $450 car payment when you are 19 FTMFL, yo!Again, not trying to be a dick, just letting you know, bro! :thumbsup:
:cheers:

(1)I don't really want Prez's Evo. Just like when Jason bought Chris' (kptrulee) JDM front shell and then sold it because no matter what Jason would do to it, it would still be Chris' shell, the same concept applies to Prez's Evo. I don't want what he spent time and money on it; I didn't do it.

(2) I'm not 19 and the payments wouldn't be $450 a month. You were there when we went to Rock Bottom to get drinks, so I'm obviously at least 21. And I've gone through loans on my computer at work, plus with my Loan Account Executive (LAE) and his assistant about the Evo (or even a different car).

[2point]

LSD's.


Good info bro. yeah, Tim gives his hell and back but probably keeps the launches to a min.. .

More tech to fill this thread.. .

So about making the stock turbos on the 03-06 Evos work best
1.) 03-04 are same? need bigger hotside and wastegate.. .
2.) 05 just needs??
3.) 06 is the best one right? Wouldn't change a thing except for a GT turbo :tongue:


Whats the deal with the cheap Megan Racing tubular header you can buy??

I that the EVO9s are putting down 370whp on stock turbo and cams. NICE:thumbsup:

You can see where I'm going here :wink:

[Prez]

mmmm

[Prez]

Good info bro. yeah, Tim gives his hell and back but probably keeps the launches to a min.. .

More tech to fill this thread.. .

So about making the stock turbos on the 03-06 Evos work best
1.) 03-04 are same? need bigger hotside and wastegate.. .
2.) 05 just needs??
3.) 06 is the best one right? Wouldn't change a thing except for a GT turbo :tongue:


Whats the deal with the cheap Megan Racing tubular header you can buy??

I that the EVO9s are putting down 370whp on stock turbo and cams. NICE:thumbsup:

You can see where I'm going here :wink:

IX's are where it is at. If you can find one in good shape at a good price.


1.) 03-04 are same? need bigger hotside and wastegate.. .

Correct

2.) 05 just needs??

Wastegate arm if you want above 24 PSI.

3.) 06 is the best one right? Wouldn't change a thing except for a GT turbo :tongue:

Yep



The megan header is a POS. No real gains and will crack and break. That why people are practically giving them away. A Ported stocker is your best bet unless your going with an AMS or others GT Kit.

[2point]

Coo on the info Prez. I figured that Megan racing Header is crap. I'm sure a few companies like Buschur will port and coat the stock one well.

If I can sell this Honda for a descent amount I'm going to try and get a EVO 9 MR most likely. We'll C. If my Civic doesn't sell for what I think I need out of it, I'll keep it around longer and still have fun with it at the race tracks. I'd rather be dumping the money into something different at this time though.. .


No wonder the EVO has higher insurance rate than a WRX Sti

[Prez]

Coo on the info Prez. I figured that Megan racing Header is crap. I'm sure a few companies like Buschur will port and coat the stock one well.

If I can sell this Honda for a descent amount I'm going to try and get a EVO 9 MR most likely. We'll C. If my Civic doesn't sell for what I think I need out of it, I'll keep it around longer and still have fun with it at the race tracks. I'd rather be dumping the money into something different at this time though.. .


No wonder the EVO has higher insurance rate than a WRX Sti

Be carefull with the MR. At HPDE they are known for loosing a gear or two.

Search EvoM there is discussion on this. They 6sp box holds less fluid and therefor can over heat during HPDE events vs. the 5speed.

[2point]

Be carefull with the MR. At HPDE they are known for loosing a gear or two.

Search EvoM there is discussion on this. They 6sp box holds less fluid and therefor can over heat during HPDE events vs. the 5speed.


ICK! well research is needed! I still need to sell a damn civic first before I buy. I'm still considering a good valued 98 or 99 M3 cpe as well. For $26-35K I can also find E46 M3s as well but them are pricey as hell to upkeep.. .

I wouldn't mind the 5spd but I would think the 6spd would be best for RR in the end after mods.. . Only thing I've heard is the battle of totally showroom stock RS 5spd model vs MR 6spd and most people preferred the 5spd RS model on the track.

so I guess I'll put the 04+ models with factory front LSD on my priority list, not just MRs.. . If I find a cheap light blue 03 model with low miles it might be hard to stay away from though. I've always liked that light blue with some deep dish black rims and polished lip:thumbsup:

[blacksheep]

Who said my car isn't up for sale?



The title of this thread was that the Evo X was for sale in Nippon that day... then it went off-topic before I got there. Why not make a new thread about the merits of the Evo?



Let's see, something valuable... I'm tired of walking into my house every night constantly paranoid with the fact that even thought I have a full-alarm on my car, kill switches and it being blocked in, my Si is still one of the most stolen cars in America. Long live the Evo!



(1)I don't really want Prez's Evo. Just like when Jason bought Chris' (kptrulee) JDM front shell and then sold it because no matter what Jason would do to it, it would still be Chris' shell, the same concept applies to Prez's Evo. I don't want what he spent time and money on it; I didn't do it.

(2) I'm not 19 and the payments wouldn't be $450 a month. You were there when we went to Rock Bottom to get drinks, so I'm obviously at least 21. And I've gone through loans on my computer at work, plus with my Loan Account Executive (LAE) and his assistant about the Evo (or even a different car).

Andrew - Seriously - at your age, you need to be concentrating on other things rather than working a job to buy cars and parts. Trust me, an Evo for a normal term for 5 years will cost a shit ton and insurance is 10 times worse than a civic. get school done, score a job and buy and sell like its going out of style. It worked for me and you look at most Evo owners, they are pretty settled in life. No BS, its not a cheap car to own, maintain or mod.

[blacksheep]

ICK! well research is needed! I still need to sell a damn civic first before I buy. I'm still considering a good valued 98 or 99 M3 cpe as well. For $26-35K I can also find E46 M3s as well but them are pricey as hell to upkeep.. .

I wouldn't mind the 5spd but I would think the 6spd would be best for RR in the end after mods.. . Only thing I've heard is the battle of totally showroom stock RS 5spd model vs MR 6spd and most people preferred the 5spd RS model on the track.

so I guess I'll put the 04+ models with factory front LSD on my priority list, not just MRs.. . If I find a cheap light blue 03 model with low miles it might be hard to stay away from though. I've always liked that light blue with some deep dish black rims and polished lip:thumbsup:

Ryan - It depends on what your final goals with the car are, bro. If you want a nice daily driver etc, buy an 05+, else buy an 03 and go to town on mods. I will post up more!

[blacksheep]

The MR is a great car, but designed for more daily drive use, I feel. I loved my 06 MR, it was so nice and smooth compared to the 04 with KYB's. The bilsteins make a huge diff and so did the swift springs. This is on Tim's car now. But, for the track the swifts won't cut it and I know Tim is upgrading suspension as well...

My 06 RS was the best, its the lightest and my bill of lading said 3115 lbs which I have pics of somewhere even. Its more of a track car, though with no sound deadening, trunk paneling, no wing etc...Something to trash around.

Decide if yoou want it to be a track oriented car or a street car. If you want a track oriented car, find the best price on an 03-04 and go to town. You can add a front LSD for 800 bux (mitsu one) or quaife for 1300 which would be my choice.

5MT vs 6MT - I have heard of MR's issues as Prez said, but I see Tim beat the crap outta his as well, so I am not sure if its lack of maintainence. Its recommended to stay out for 20-25 mins at max. The 5MT has a worthless 5th gear - the MR 5th gear swap is commonly done or you can get custom gearing thru Shep or TRE.

Pick a car and get it - We can walk you thru the rest, no problem!

[blacksheep]

oh - stocke replacement header - Yes, Megan, DC, GTSpec and others have been proven to be outdone by a ported stock manny, I havent seen prevelan cases of cracked cheapo headers. TTP ran one for 2+ years with no issues.

full-race has a decent manifold which buschur said dyno'd better than stcok at every rpm range and esp up top, but it cost like 900 bux - typical full-race pricing. Their stuff is good but pricey

[2point]

Ryan - It depends on what your final goals with the car are, bro. If you want a nice daily driver etc, buy an 05+, else buy an 03 and go to town on mods. I will post up more!


Well, as I have been with the Civic, I'll be tracking the car, mainly Road Course and some AutoX. It'll also be used for cruising and what not. It is less likely it will become an all out Race Car. When the time comes, I might go back to honda for a Wheel to wheel race car b/c it is more affordable but probably not for the same class I was gunning my current Civic Cpe for (NASA H1).

For sure the 03 is not ruled out.. . I just see more value in a 04+ b/c they come with LSD and the 05+ comes with a better turbo. And the newer cars are going to be easier to find with little or no mods done to them and with lower miles.. .

Time will tell. If my insurance rates hadn't been so high long ago, I'd probably own one of these EVOs by now. Like I said before though, if the Civic doesn't sell for a descent price, I probably wont be getting anything next year and I'll just continue to race it.. . It can punk on some EVOs anyways :tongue:

[2point]

I research before I buy(typically) so with that and some help, the right car should be in my driveway for sure.. . Maybe I can find a diamond in the rough!

For sure the Stock Suspension will get replaced. I'll mod the suspension before the motor anyways.. . I already have some brands in mind.

The cheaper the car payment though, the MORE FUN TIME that can be had on the track! One reason why an E36 M3 is still a good buy. A 4yr $275 - $350 payment is nice. While a 5yr $500 payment for a $26,000 EVO takes a bit longer to swallow.. . It cost at least $250 a day to track a car like an EVO or M3, not including tire ware so we'll see what car I'm zoomin around in come spring time.

Most of me is feelin the EVO b/c of the DD/track Fun factor but the E36 M3 screems that it could be an "all out" track car way before the EVO could be (finacially). I tend to strive for my goals/dreams and wheel to wheel racing is one of those so we'll C what happens :cheers:

[Optimus]

looks good lol