ITR or CTR pistons???

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

I have a B18C1 block/head and i want to get some type r pistons but what should i go with?...

My plan is to do a mild NA build.... upgrade the valvetrain and put some stage2 cams or something similar...my goal is to get in the 185-200whp area...

[nate2k5]

sorry i didn't get back to your pm.

if i were you i'd just go itr, jdm or usdm is up to you, its a 10.4:1 to 11.1:1 difference, plus about .3-.4 with gsr head. ctr would put you well into the 12's which might be good if its a dedicated racecar but for street you run the risk of getting some bad gas and doing some damage along with having to have a more precise tune. it comes down to finding a very skilled tuner at those CR's

building a stock itr block with a decent head and good tune should at least get you 190 with decent boltons, more with better cams and boltons such as 2.5" exhaust and race header

good luck on your choice :cheers:

[MANNY_FRESH]

ITR, i send pics to you but with the comprision ans itr set with a ls bottom end i'm getting up in the 10s' in comprission and i like on the egde of the top block, and crt might blow your head, thats a maybe but not really sure....

[MANNY_FRESH]

rs machine on market place on HT. i no your noob at that site but its fast shipping and its like 100 bucks but i think DACasey has a set for 60.

[2point]

whats the budget?

you say MILD build but what would really make you happy? Might as well build for the future.

I suggest you didtch the B18 block and go B20Z with a Blockguard and possibly stay with stock pistons if you get the right B20 block. Put your B18 head on it and let her rip at high rpm. Get some cams that offer the best mid range power, thin headgasket and flat top valves for higher compression. It will be way more fun on the road that the torqueless wonder B18. Keep the revs in a reasonable window and the motor will last a good amount of time unless you go extreme compression.. . You could start with just a really stock B20z setup and then do the head later after you save a bit.

car # for #, A built head B20z will rival any K20a that is not cammed or boosted. A high compression B20 with upgrade rods and head will contend with a cammed K20 for sure. High comp B20 wont last near as long as a K20 though.

[nate2k5]

whats the budget?

you say MILD build but what would really make you happy? Might as well build for the future.

I suggest you didtch the B18 block and go B20Z with a Blockguard and possibly stay with stock pistons if you get the right B20 block. Put your B18 head on it and let her rip at high rpm. Get some cams that offer the best mid range power, thin headgasket and flat top valves for higher compression. It will be way more fun on the road that the torqueless wonder B18. Keep the revs in a reasonable window and the motor will last a good amount of time unless you go extreme compression.. . You could start with just a really stock B20z setup and then do the head later after you save a bit.

car # for #, A built head B20z will rival any K20a that is not cammed or boosted. A high compression B20 with upgrade rods and head will contend with a cammed K20 for sure. High comp B20 wont last near as long as a K20 though.

block guard won't do shit if you try revving a stock b20 bottom end past its redline very much

alos the b16 is known as the torqueless wonder NOT the b18

[2point]

Block guard has been proven to work for Honda Challenge H1 engines. Short of sleeving the engine block (BIG MONEY AND NOT HONDA CHALLENGE LEGAL) it is your best option to hold up to the revs and stay as cheap and as OEM as possible for a build.

To be the fastest with Honda Motors, you shift just beyond the peak power. This doesn't mean shift at 10,000 just b.c your motor was built to handle 10,000rpm, it means shift at 8,000 b/c you made your peak WHP at 7,800rpm.. . Rarely will a mild build motor have a peak HP at the mechanical limits of it's components. That would take some aggressive cams for a B20 or B18. On a K24 I have seen this though. This was on a high compression motor using customized OEM s2000 pistons in conjunction with a built head on stage 2 cams. AKA the Hytech 300whp K24 montser.

[96EkHatch]

Block guard has been proven to work for Honda Challenge H1 engines. Short of sleeving the engine block (BIG MONEY AND NOT HONDA CHALLENGE LEGAL) it is your best option to hold up to the revs and stay as cheap and as OEM as possible for a build.

To be the fastest with Honda Motors, you shift just beyond the peak power. This doesn't mean shift at 10,000 just b.c your motor was built to handle 10,000rpm, it means shift at 8,000 b/c you made your peak WHP at 7,800rpm.. . Rarely will a mild build motor have a peak HP at the mechanical limits of it's components. That would take some aggressive cams for a B20 or B18. On a K24 I have seen this though. This was on a high compression motor using customized OEM s2000 pistons in conjunction with a built head on stage 2 cams. AKA the Hytech 300whp K24 montser.

sounds like the one i read about in honda tuning that got banded

[jdmtimdc2]

hasports k24 teggy

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

yeah...money is sort of an issue...dont want to go all out or anything...i still have to look for a tranny...and figure out what tuning software i should go with...

ITR pistons would make me happy, looking for a b20 block would be hard and it would cost me more money, and id have to do more research about the b20/vtec setup...

...i probably WOULD go a little further if this was going into the stock shell, but since its all going into a little crx...im sure it'll do just fine...i hope :toothless

[ej8mando]

just go with itr pistons, with even 180whp in a little crx it will be supper fun 2 drive

[L0mma515]

Block guard has been proven to work for Honda Challenge H1 engines. Short of sleeving the engine block (BIG MONEY AND NOT HONDA CHALLENGE LEGAL) it is your best option to hold up to the revs and stay as cheap and as OEM as possible for a build.

To be the fastest with Honda Motors, you shift just beyond the peak power. This doesn't mean shift at 10,000 just b.c your motor was built to handle 10,000rpm, it means shift at 8,000 b/c you made your peak WHP at 7,800rpm.. . Rarely will a mild build motor have a peak HP at the mechanical limits of it's components. That would take some aggressive cams for a B20 or B18. On a K24 I have seen this though. This was on a high compression motor using customized OEM s2000 pistons in conjunction with a built head on stage 2 cams. AKA the Hytech 300whp K24 montser.

Ive heard block guard was alright but blocks the coolant also in the passage way around the cylinders, and most professionals prefer BLOCK POSTING cause its cheaper then block guard and heard its alot better then block guarding the owner of THEOLDONE.com, stephan Papadakis, myles bautista, etc they use this technique.

[2point]

I'm not saying that blockguard is the best thing since sliced cheese for the B20 to handle the revs, I'm just saying that it works for Honda Challenge guys to belt out 220whp +

A 200whp setup should last a while on the B20 with the best block guard you can get.

I have not read anything about "BLOCK POSTING" but I'm pretty sure a TRUE professional would NOT put a bandaid in the motor and just go with a FULL on sleeved motor or a DART block. Pros don't care if their motor only lasts a few races before it needs rebuilt.. . There's a couple Honda challenge guys that build their B20s to the limits and rebuild them after every 3-4 race weekends.

180whp in a CRX will be good to go. I've heard the 210hp JDM R motor is a really nice setup in a CRX.

[iLLuZiOn]

ya man stick wit itr with ctr and the grs's close deck you run the risk of the piston slapin the head and you would have to clay it just to make sure depending on the type of valvetrain you are using and also with the itr you will get a cleaner burn due to the flat top as apposed to the pyramid top the ctr has. ive built motors with both of these pistons and i would stay with the itr :thumbsup:

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

wow thanks for all the info guys..helps me alot.... :u_r_god:
...yeah i dont plan on building up a motor and having to rebuild it after a few race weekends...thats why im looking for a nice decent setup thatll just about last as long as i own the car whether its a year or more (mostly more)...

as far as the head gasket, what do you guys prefer?...should i go with stock?...i dont want to go too high because i hear you have to find a really good tuner if you go too high in compression...

and are there other mods i should do to the gsr block?...like is a itr oil pump neccessary or other things?...

[iLLuZiOn]

all b series oil pumps are the same... when i did my mild build i used a buddy club 2 layer headgasket worked nice:thumbsup:

[iLLuZiOn]

let me rephrase b4 i get corrected all b series VTEC oil pumps are the same

[nate2k5]

let me rephrase b4 i get corrected all b series VTEC oil pumps are the same

this is true to a point, they have very similar or the same internals but after 96 they are manufactured with a different sensor inlet so obd1 timing belt covers will not fit over the pump.

i believe all 96+ b series are the same

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

i believe mine is a 94'...so i should just stick w/ wut i got?

...are there any other upgrades to the block i should worry about?...hmm..i cant think of anything right now....

[iLLuZiOn]

ya what u got is fine unless ur screamin past 9000 rpm then u might want a toda gear other than that your block should b fine focus on the head

[nate2k5]

i believe mine is a 94'...so i should just stick w/ wut i got?

...are there any other upgrades to the block i should worry about?...hmm..i cant think of anything right now....

VTEC oil and water pumps, ARP rod bolts and head studs

[2point]

Get the pistons specially coated and run NO2 :thumbsup: If you like that sort of thing.. . you know, being fast and all :wink: Run special rings for it too (clearances)

[MANNY_FRESH]

I"m running ITR pistons, with block guard on them. We live in Iowa so it would be good for the winter when you start up your car. RS machines that were i got mine and they come with rings, and there like 100 bucks. if your doing B20 or Ls vtec then i would get ITR, but um i no of a person with a b20 motor but no tranny. PM me if you want it

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

I"m running ITR pistons, with block guard on them. We live in Iowa so it would be good for the winter when you start up your car. RS machines that were i got mine and they come with rings, and there like 100 bucks. if your doing B20 or Ls vtec then i would get ITR, but um i no of a person with a b20 motor but no tranny. PM me if you want it

i thought RS machines make itr pistons but they arent exactly factory?...i dont know $100 w/ rings sounds too good to be true...
Get the pistons specially coated and run NO2 :thumbsup: If you like that sort of thing.. . you know, being fast and all :wink: Run special rings for it too (clearances)

i thought about running nitrous, couldnt i just use it as long as its tuned right?

VTEC oil and water pumps, ARP rod bolts and head studs

yup, time to look for some rod bolts and head studs...i also got ahold of a new set of ACL engine bearings and thrust washers...wasnt sure if i really needed them but i got them for like $30

ya what u got is fine unless ur screamin past 9000 rpm then u might want a toda gear other than that your block should b fine focus on the head

naw, i plan to use factory redline...as for the head, im waiting on some parts to finish upgrading the valvetrain, now i just need to decide what camshafts to go with

[nate2k5]

naw, i plan to use factory redline...as for the head, im waiting on some parts to finish upgrading the valvetrain, now i just need to decide what camshafts to go with

stock redline of what? 6800, 8100, or 8400?

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

8100 i think.... or whatever the redline is of the gsr...or will that change when i modify the block or head???

[nate2k5]

8100 i think.... or whatever the redline is of the gsr...or will that change when i modify the block or head???

it can change, the biggest weak points are the rod bolts, valvesprings, and head studs

[2point]

coatings just help motors in general.. . I'm not going to go into it here about pros and cons so I would just search around for some websites that offer coatings

[nate2k5]

coatings just help motors in general.. . I'm not going to go into it here about pros and cons so I would just search around for some websites that offer coatings

itr and ctr pistons have moly coated skirts. coatings are good to keep temps down and heat evenly distributed but they really are as you call a "band aid" for a build such as this, if you are burning holes in stock pistons then you obviously have another huge problem.

i can see if it was a high hp turbo build or a 13:1+ NA build but not this...

[rice4life]

if you use itr pistons ull be right at 11.59:1 and ctr will be 13.09:1

so i would say if you wanna mild build go with itr p73 00 (if it dont have the douple zero there not heat coated)

if you wanna go a lil cheaper route use p30 pistons (jdm b16) that would put your compression ratio at 11.50:1

good luck with ur build and make sure you get adj. cam gears ull find alot or power messin with em if tou know what ur doin

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

yeah... i got some buddy club adj. cam gears :thumbsup:

[nate2k5]

if you use itr pistons ull be right at 11.59:1 and ctr will be 13.09:1

so i would say if you wanna mild build go with itr p73 00 (if it dont have the douple zero there not heat coated)

if you wanna go a lil cheaper route use p30 pistons (jdm b16) that would put your compression ratio at 11.50:1

good luck with ur build and make sure you get adj. cam gears ull find alot or power messin with em if tou know what ur doin

i assume you are using jdm itr piston specs...and i am not sure what you are talking about with the heat coating, the only coating stock pistons have is a molybdenum coating on the skirts and both the usdm A0 and jdm 00 itr and ctr pistons have it

[rice4life]

so how sure are you???

if you look at a A0 piston its n0t going to have the black coating on the sleeve em UNLESS you order them that way. which wqould not be OEM.

i say that because u just made me 2ed guess my self till i went outside and checked

[nate2k5]

so how sure are you???

if you look at a A0 piston its n0t going to have the black coating on the sleeve em UNLESS you order them that way. which wqould not be OEM.

i say that because u just made me 2ed guess my self till i went outside and checked

i AM sure, ALL itr pistons have moly coated skirts

[rice4life]

well im not goin to argue wit you about it.

[nate2k5]

good:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/nate_2k5/engine/PICT0059-1.jpg

[rice4life]

lol no comment

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

what pistons are those?...do they got the coating thing?

...and is the coating neccessary?..i dont plan on using nitrous or anything...

[nate2k5]

they are p73 A0, usdm itr pistons...the coating helps with friction, its not necessary but about any high compression piston you get will have it for oem pistons.

RS Machine coats all of theirs that i know of except maybe the p30, not really sure on those

[MANNY_FRESH]

and there good on start ups in the winter. i got me a set i should of took pics but my motors back together..

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

and there good on start ups in the winter. i got me a set i should of took pics but my motors back together..

heard u took it to midstate machine?...why did you go there instead of like wrenches or something...

they are p73 A0, usdm itr pistons...the coating helps with friction, its not necessary but about any high compression piston you get will have it for oem pistons.

RS Machine coats all of theirs that i know of except maybe the p30, not really sure on those

how much u pay for ur itr pistons?...did it included wrist pins and rings?

[ej8mando]

y do you want itr pistons if your going turbo? i just read your sig so thought i would ask

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

y do you want itr pistons if your going turbo? i just read your sig so thought i would ask

oh...ahaha...naw dont mind the rex...as of right now its just a turbocharged ZC motor (i recently bought it and thats how it came)...

..the gsr motor isnt in it right now, which is what im trying to build up before i throw it in... as for the zc turbo...the motor/tranny will be a back-up for my lil bro's car and the turbo kit will go to my cousin...unless my lil bro can cough up some cash moonnney...haha

[Jovi_Bot_3000]

will i still be able to run premium octane on this setup?...itr pistons,b18c1 block/head,skunk2 cams

[h22apwrd94]

ya man stick wit itr with ctr and the grs's close deck you run the risk of the piston slapin the head and you would have to clay it just to make sure depending on the type of valvetrain you are using and also with the itr you will get a cleaner burn due to the flat top as apposed to the pyramid top the ctr has. ive built motors with both of these pistons and i would stay with the itr :thumbsup:

You're kidding me right. The quench pads in the gsr combustion chamber are a superior design for combustion as compared to the pr3 castings. They also have a steeper runner angle on the intake side IIRC. Most head builders modify the combustion chambers by welding up the quench areas so that a better combustion can be achieved. They do this to the pr3 castings (b16,itr) as a normal procedure, and they normally try and cloverleaf this area. All newer b series use a open deck design on the block and all b18's have the same piston to deck height. As long as the head and block are within factory milling tolerances, you should not have a problem with interference unless you have stretched something. Now piston to valve is completely different. All depends on cam and timing. To gain a little compression, you can run a flat face valve, and will not be a clearance issue unlike running a thinner HG. Either way, reseacrch is your friend, both the ctr's and itr's will net you gains, but only with proper tuning, a cam that is timed properly and aggressive enough to take advantage of the higher static compression, and the supporting mods (IM header, exhaust, TB, Injectors) to run the setup. The biggest thing people neglect is the header. A ton of power can be made with the proper unit.

Mike