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Old 04/25/2011, 04:51 PM   #26
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Cool. Once again, sucks to be you. I stand tall next to Wrenches and there work. You WILL NOT find a shop that does what they do, and thats all around good work. Kelly didn't have to help you, buy building the engine. He could have stuck you with a Junkyard POS for way more. But he tried to work with you. Sucks it ended up this way. You could have just as easy found an engine builder to right? Why didn't you?

Your input...Wrenches sucks....mine, Bens, and many others are different. And its not like I'm trying to save a friend or anyting, because me an Kelly are strictly business. He bust his ass for me, I pay up. Thats just how it works.

Further more, there is 3 pages of all good about Wrenchs in the tuning section. I beleive everyone that uses Wrenches neeed to post there great experiance.

WRENCHES FTMFW
Okay. Put yourself in my shoes, what if it happend to you? No I couldnt of found an engine builder just as easly I dont run a "shop". Like I said before I am not refering to there tuneing am I? I am refering to my experience with Wrenches.


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Old 04/25/2011, 04:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Kelly, Brian and Chad have been here for all of you needing answers.....For everyone of you after your fucked up your cars....after you blew your engine up, tried to take it out...lost half the bolt and then they got it running for you. Kelly.....a dick head? Yet he has the BEST PRICES, the cleanest shop in town, and the best employee's around. Go tune somewhere else... show me your $3-400 tune, not gonna happen.

You got the run around buy an engine builder, whats new. Ask any guy on here thats dealt with building an engine, you call a million times before its done. Even at good machine shops. Should have got a new engine, like you stated you were gonna do. Sucks to be you.

Moral, Kelly is the best shop owner I know. Brian is a top notch tuner, and Chad is the one that has done every project you cant finish. My input here is this shop does a great job. From price, to labor, tuning, free soda's

Wrenches FTMFW
look i know i am the odd man out i have a probe yes laugh all you want but i took my car to wrenches and they were talking about tearing down the head had the checked out and every thing tested ok along with a brand new head gasket so they were wrong not to mention the fact that they told me that they could get my car in to be looked at the day after i droped it off and when i cam back they were still sayint the same thing but they were 2 or 3 weeks out so i pulled it from wrenches and took it two scots well the cam timing was off so i would have to say wrenches

 
Old 04/25/2011, 04:55 PM   #28
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

Honestly, wrenches tuned my car for 2 hours and gave me like the 1 hour price, I never had a issue with them... yes kelly can some times come off like a jerk some times, but he runs a shop, ppl must not understand the crap he goes threw every day, and the only ppl that where there to help when I needed it, were the guys at wrenches... end of rant


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Old 04/25/2011, 05:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by remix Rick View Post
Honestly, wrenches tuned my car for 2 hours and gave me like the 1 hour price, I never had a issue with them... yes kelly can some times come off like a jerk some times, but he runs a shop, ppl must not understand the crap he goes threw every day, and the only ppl that where there to help when I needed it, were the guys at wrenches... end of rant
Damn Rick, I finally agree with something you have said!

Kelly and Wrenches have never done me wrong, they've cut me plenty of deals in the past ranging from random welds, intercooler piping, exhausts, tunes, the list goes on. I'd be a bullshitter if I said that I've never been boned on a car deal or at least felt like I did. It's part of "the game". I along with many of the other guys who have been around a while have spent more money on cars than we ever want to think about, and does it ever show a return? Never. Cars are a money pit, building cars is like throwing money into a dumpster in the grand scheme of things.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm not gonna hate on you for it. You had a bad experience, don't go back or use their services again, pretty simple. Also, no matter how well you run a business, mistakes are going to happen, its a fact. Maybe this customer did get shafted a bit, but it's gonna happen, it just sucks when it happens to you. Don't burn any bridges over it though, sooner or later you'll probably at least want to use their services for something.

As far as I'm concerned Kelly runs a good shop and does good work. I've been in the shop before and I've seen random "normal" non-tuner customers try and pull shit to try and get a better deal. Kelly has to deal with that type of shit it all the time. Business is business. Sometimes you gotta be a dick.


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Old 04/25/2011, 05:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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A homo that just banned you
back on topic no need to judge Garretts sexuality for it is unknown.

I agree I also herd good things about Wrenches hence why I took my car there in the first place. Only reason I posted this document is becuase I was unsatisfied with how un professionally Kelly handled things and I dont want anyone else to have have to go through the trouble that I did.


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Old 04/25/2011, 06:08 PM   #31
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Kelly, Brian and Chad have been here for all of you needing answers.....For everyone of you after your fucked up your cars....after you blew your engine up, tried to take it out...lost half the bolt and then they got it running for you. Kelly.....a dick head? Yet he has the BEST PRICES, the cleanest shop in town, and the best employee's around. Go tune somewhere else... show me your $3-400 tune, not gonna happen.

You got the run around buy an engine builder, whats new. Ask any guy on here thats dealt with building an engine, you call a million times before its done. Even at good machine shops. Should have got a new engine, like you stated you were gonna do. Sucks to be you.

Moral, Kelly is the best shop owner I know. Brian is a top notch tuner, and Chad is the one that has done every project you cant finish. My input here is this shop does a great job. From price, to labor, tuning, free soda's

Wrenches FTMFW

Agree'd!!! Kelly has helped on ton of people out on here and gone way out of his way many times.

His rates are fair and has always done me right and several people I have sent his way.


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Old 04/25/2011, 06:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by honda494 View Post
garret is just another homo
Then spell his name right.

I don't know where to start on this. I can start at the beginning. Wrenches checked out your car and gave you your options to fix it, correct? Locate another complete engine, or get yours rebuilt. They did not want to do the rebuild in-house, correct? So, at that point, you either make the decision to find a good used engine or find a builder that you trust to rebuild your engine for you. You could do neither (no good used engine available and nobody you knew to do a rebuild), so Kelly gave you a name of somebody he felt was qualified to do the work. At that point, this person does not work for Wrenches and was not being paid by Wrenches. So, now you are dealing with two separate entities in your struggle.

At this point, why would Kelly (not affiliated with the engine builder, and only waiting on you to provide an engine so he can complete his work) need to contact the engine builder or check in with him on the progress of your rebuild? I understand you are the customer, but it is in no way his responsibility unless he was paying the builder to do the work. And in this case you were dealing with the builder first hand. Therefore you were also getting the cheapest price available on the work from that person.

As far as what his guys are doing in the shop at a certain time of the day, if as an owner you are not able to multi-task your employees, you will not make any money. So what if they were on the internet doing really who knows what (parts research, tech research, porn surfing), this was told to you by a friend of a friend who was banging dudes sister, but dudes sister was really a tranny. You see where I am going with that. It doesn't really mean shit in the large scope. I mean, Kelly could be a bigger "dick" by never letting anybody past the rubber tiled floor area. That would really make him money, but he lets potential customers see what is going on, and get an understanding of what is really done. Shit, I would charge a minimal fee to talk to Brian or Chad if it takes them away from their work to answer a question. Because their time is money.

I run a small business myself. And while your customer base is everything, 50% of the time the customer isn't right. There is always something flawed in their perception, reasoning or attitude. You have to work with this and make their experience the best possible based on the circumstances. In my situation, I deal with alot of repair service. If we source the parts, and it doesn't fix the problem based on the original diagnosis and estimate, we work from there. If the customer wants to use their own parts based on their own diagnosis, gladly, but if it doesn't fix it, not my problem. You still pay the labor, and we can go from there to find you a better solution to your issue. Which in the long run here, is exactly what Kelly and Wrenches did for you.

I am by no means affiliated with Wrenches in any way. I have known all parties that work there for atleast 8 years. I know what it takes to run a successful store front and business. There will always be problems. It is how you handle the problems. For every100 good experiences, I will hear from the customer about 5% of them. For every bad experience, I will hear 100% of them. so, weigh the good and the bad and work from there. In the long run, the "Thank you for your input. I know how DSM's are but ill take my DSM over a Honda anyday. I got the money to burn." attitude didn't play here. You wanted to go the cheapest route possible. Cheap, fast and relieable....it applies to everything. With money to burn, you order a good complete engine from a reputable source and you get it to Kelly and your car is back to you late January if the engine came in in good working order.

Moral here, you get what you are paying for, no matter who is involved. Wrenches did what they were paid for.

Mike

 
Old 04/25/2011, 06:23 PM   #33
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

stop attacking this guy. he is simply posting his experience, which sounds like its completely unacceptable.

bottom line: kelly recommended this guy and the guy fucked off. that is on kelly, it is not professional to recommend a friend who doesn't have a shop and then act like its not your problem when that deal goes sour. if you are going to recommend someone you better be damn sure they are going to follow through with what they say because it sheds negative light on your own company, such as now. yelling obscenities is complete bullshit.


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Old 04/25/2011, 06:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by blacksheep View Post
MODS:

Is wrenches a vendor here? If they are, this thread belongs in the Vendor Section. Else, it should go in buyer/seller feedback section.

General discussions is NOT the section this thread should be in as it will get tore up with retarded comments.

 
Old 04/25/2011, 07:01 PM   #35
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I see no problem with what anything OP said, as it was how he felt he was treated by Wrenches and Nick.
There will always be good feedback and bad feedback. This is one of the instances were the transaction went sour and the OP felt the need to voice his experience.

Your transactions could've gone smooth as pie. His didn't, and he's free to post up what happened.

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Originally Posted by Bun View Post
im just trying to say your giving wrenches a bad rep from YOUR experience. every time ive been in they have been great thats all.
What do you want him to do? Give them a good rep after he got the runaround?

This is to everyone. If you don't read the first post and offer something insightful to this topic, don't bother posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nate2k5 View Post
stop attacking this guy. he is simply posting his experience, which sounds like its completely unacceptable.

bottom line: kelly recommended this guy and the guy fucked off. that is on kelly, it is not professional to recommend a friend who doesn't have a shop and then act like its not your problem when that deal goes sour. if you are going to recommend someone you better be damn sure they are going to follow through with what they say because it sheds negative light on your own company, such as now. yelling obscenities is complete bullshit.
I wouldn't completely agree with this statement.
In my line of work, if someone comes into my bank with investment questions, and I refer them to TD Ameritrade, my bank and I are no longer liable for whatever transactions they (the customer) does with TD Ameritrade.

So I wouldn't entirely put Kelly at fault here. At the first sign of trouble with this "engine builder" I probably would have bailed and brought my motor work to be done elsewhere. I've been down that road before.

Last edited by EM1San; 04/25/2011 at 07:06 PM.

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Old 04/25/2011, 07:01 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
Then spell his name right.

I don't know where to start on this. I can start at the beginning. Wrenches checked out your car and gave you your options to fix it, correct? Locate another complete engine, or get yours rebuilt. They did not want to do the rebuild in-house, correct? So, at that point, you either make the decision to find a good used engine or find a builder that you trust to rebuild your engine for you. You could do neither (no good used engine available and nobody you knew to do a rebuild), so Kelly gave you a name of somebody he felt was qualified to do the work. At that point, this person does not work for Wrenches and was not being paid by Wrenches. So, now you are dealing with two separate entities in your struggle.

At this point, why would Kelly (not affiliated with the engine builder, and only waiting on you to provide an engine so he can complete his work) need to contact the engine builder or check in with him on the progress of your rebuild? I understand you are the customer, but it is in no way his responsibility unless he was paying the builder to do the work. And in this case you were dealing with the builder first hand. Therefore you were also getting the cheapest price available on the work from that person.

As far as what his guys are doing in the shop at a certain time of the day, if as an owner you are not able to multi-task your employees, you will not make any money. So what if they were on the internet doing really who knows what (parts research, tech research, porn surfing), this was told to you by a friend of a friend who was banging dudes sister, but dudes sister was really a tranny. You see where I am going with that. It doesn't really mean shit in the large scope. I mean, Kelly could be a bigger "dick" by never letting anybody past the rubber tiled floor area. That would really make him money, but he lets potential customers see what is going on, and get an understanding of what is really done. Shit, I would charge a minimal fee to talk to Brian or Chad if it takes them away from their work to answer a question. Because their time is money.

I run a small business myself. And while your customer base is everything, 50% of the time the customer isn't right. There is always something flawed in their perception, reasoning or attitude. You have to work with this and make their experience the best possible based on the circumstances. In my situation, I deal with alot of repair service. If we source the parts, and it doesn't fix the problem based on the original diagnosis and estimate, we work from there. If the customer wants to use their own parts based on their own diagnosis, gladly, but if it doesn't fix it, not my problem. You still pay the labor, and we can go from there to find you a better solution to your issue. Which in the long run here, is exactly what Kelly and Wrenches did for you.

I am by no means affiliated with Wrenches in any way. I have known all parties that work there for atleast 8 years. I know what it takes to run a successful store front and business. There will always be problems. It is how you handle the problems. For every100 good experiences, I will hear from the customer about 5% of them. For every bad experience, I will hear 100% of them. so, weigh the good and the bad and work from there. In the long run, the "Thank you for your input. I know how DSM's are but ill take my DSM over a Honda anyday. I got the money to burn." attitude didn't play here. You wanted to go the cheapest route possible. Cheap, fast and relieable....it applies to everything. With money to burn, you order a good complete engine from a reputable source and you get it to Kelly and your car is back to you late January if the engine came in in good working order.

Moral here, you get what you are paying for, no matter who is involved. Wrenches did what they were paid for.

Mike
I had no problem shelling out the cash, My issue was the time, at the time it was SUPPOSED to be faster for him to rebuild the engine then for me to seek one to buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Happilly married to my beautiful wife. Thank you.

Why don't you express these fellings against this Nick? Would make sense then.
I feel you took my post the wrong way. What I ment is I dont know you personally so I dont know about your sexual orientation. Anyways did I not post Nicks name in the post? Yes I did kinda hard to go after a guy you dont know much about. Either way most of you are quick to defend Wrenches but you fail to see my point, from what I understand you guys think it was perfectly fine for him to cuss me out today and act like a child correct?

Like Nate2k5 said im just posting my expierence.

Last edited by EM1San; 04/25/2011 at 07:07 PM.

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Old 04/25/2011, 07:16 PM   #37
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by EM1San View Post
I see no problem with what anything OP said, as it was how he felt he was treated by Wrenches and Nick.
There will always be good feedback and bad feedback. This is one of the instances were the transaction went sour and the OP felt the need to voice his experience.

Your transactions could've gone smooth as pie. His didn't, and he's free to post up what happened.



What do you want him to do? Give them a good rep after he got the runaround?

This is to everyone. If you don't read the first post and offer something insightful to this topic, don't bother posting.



I wouldn't completely agree with this statement.
In my line of work, if someone comes into my bank with investment questions, and I refer them to TD Ameritrade, my bank and I are no longer liable for whatever transactions they (the customer) does with TD Ameritrade.

So I wouldn't entirely put Kelly at fault here. At the first sign of trouble with this "engine builder" I probably would have bailed and brought my motor work to be done elsewhere. I've been down that road before.
See my whole problem with that is though it would just cost me more time, it is a pain in the ass not having a car to get around, I just wanted him to finish the dumb thing so I could get it put in.


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Old 04/25/2011, 07:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

1. thank you for sharing your experience. sorry for your trouble. i think beter judgement on yourself and kelly's part would have gone a long way.

2. i have no problem with wrenches as a shop as i have had exhuast work done in the past. brain is the shit and does great work. kelly i feel needs to stay out of the mechanical part of things and focus just on sales. running a shop is no joke between employes,payroll,taxes,parts .ext its a lot to handle and im sure kelly gets overwhelmed from time to time. but more effort on his part would have gone a long way seeing as the car was in his posession and he gave the work to (nick).

3. garret COOL IT! FTMFW


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Old 04/25/2011, 07:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by EM1San View Post
I wouldn't completely agree with this statement.
In my line of work, if someone comes into my bank with investment questions, and I refer them to TD Ameritrade, my bank and I are no longer liable for whatever transactions they (the customer) does with TD Ameritrade.

So I wouldn't entirely put Kelly at fault here. At the first sign of trouble with this "engine builder" I probably would have bailed and brought my motor work to be done elsewhere. I've been down that road before.
TD Ameritrade is a real company, not a "friend who has the parts and can rebuild it".

completely different scenarios, it'd be like an investor referring you to invest in a ponzi scheme and then finding out halfway through. doesn't matter if it looks legit if it doesn't end up being.


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Old 04/25/2011, 08:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by Mschooley92 View Post
I had no problem shelling out the cash, My issue was the time, at the time it was SUPPOSED to be faster for him to rebuild the engine then for me to seek one to buy.
To be honest, I can't recall a time that it would ever be shorter to do a rebuild with all the associated machine work, parts ordering and build time associated with a rebuild. On the other hand, going through a reputable engine dealer with product in stock would take at the most two weeks with shipping. I would honestly say it would be probably a month minimum on a rebuild from start of teardown to completion of the build, including all parts ordering and machine work.

So, I don't know what was quoted to you as far as time involved, but it sounds like that was where the problem first started.

Also, had Kelly suggested AMS, Buschur Racing or any other major known DSM tuner out there for the rebuild and then come back with a $3000 price tag instead of the quoted $1700 for a local guy that does not have a store front, but has experience in the field, that would have been ok?

Last edited by H22APWRD94; 04/25/2011 at 08:12 PM.
 
Old 04/25/2011, 08:14 PM   #41
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by nate2k5 View Post
TD Ameritrade is a real company, not a "friend who has the parts and can rebuild it".

completely different scenarios, it'd be like an investor referring you to invest in a ponzi scheme and then finding out halfway through. doesn't matter if it looks legit if it doesn't end up being.
No, it would be like investing with a guy that does his own investments on the side. Just like the situation here.

 
Old 04/25/2011, 08:24 PM   #42
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
To be honest, I can't recall a time that it would ever be shorter to do a rebuild with all the associated machine work, parts ordering and build time associated with a rebuild. On the other hand, going through a reputable engine dealer with product in stock would take at the most two weeks with shipping. I would honestly say it would be probably a month minimum on a rebuild from start of teardown to completion of the build, including all parts ordering and machine work.

So, I don't know what was quoted to you as far as time involved, but it sounds like that was where the problem first started.

Also, had Kelly suggested AMS, Buschur Racing or any other major known DSM tuner out there for the rebuild and then come back with a $3000 price tag instead of the quoted $1700 for a local guy that does not have a store front, but has experience in the field, that would have been ok?
As stated in my document it would of been faster becuase Kelly claimed this guy had all the parts ready to be put together except for the bearings.

Basicly was told the engine would be done in 2 weeks and it was pretty far from it.

Last edited by Mschooley92; 04/25/2011 at 08:28 PM.

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Old 04/25/2011, 08:28 PM   #43
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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garret COOL IT! FTMFW


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Old 04/25/2011, 08:40 PM   #44
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

Any form of machine work, most machine shops won't guarantee faster than two weeks most times of the year. And Kelly said that the builder had all the parts or you confirmed with the builder that he had all the parts? Again, I understand you being upset with the situation, but you also have to take some responsibility as far as making sure where you are putting your trust.

 
Old 04/25/2011, 08:59 PM   #45
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Originally Posted by ConHuevos! View Post
recommending someone to do work for your customers is pretty risky. even if it wasn't wrenches that was building the engine, i beleive they are responsible for making sure things are going well with the builder they recommended, in the end its "your" customer. When you referre services, its like you are putting your name on someone elses work. if a deal goes south (like this one), it makes everyone on the shop side look bad. From the beginning of the post, i could tell it was going to go wrong.

The OP should have probably done more research on where to get his problem fixed and the shop in this case shouldn't accept jobs they can not entirely do themselves. I'm more than sure that wrenches is a good shop, and i've heard nothing but good things from the place and i plan on getting exhaust work there, but they shouldn't referre services, unless its to another reputable shop.
Exactly what I was going to say.

Theres nothing wrong with the OP sharing his experience. As a business owner, if you're going to refer a customer to someone for services, by default, you're responsible for whatever happens. I personally, for the most part, have only received good things from Wrenches. Yea Kelly can be a dick sometimes but thats how he is when you're a dick to him, with me anyway. We always joke around with each other but at the end of the day, we know its nothing personal.

Anyways, I'll be stopping by there real soon to get my dumptube fixed.


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Old 04/25/2011, 09:00 PM   #46
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Any form of machine work, most machine shops won't guarantee faster than two weeks most times of the year. And Kelly said that the builder had all the parts or you confirmed with the builder that he had all the parts? Again, I understand you being upset with the situation, but you also have to take some responsibility as far as making sure where you are putting your trust.
Kelly called me up and said hay something like "Hay I have a friend he builds engine he has all the parts, except for the bearings he will do if for $1200 " I said sounds good and Kelly gave me the number I called Nick and he said he could have it done by the end of January which was about 2 weeks from that time period.


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Old 04/25/2011, 09:17 PM   #47
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Kelly called me up and said hay something like "Hay I have a friend he builds engine he has all the parts, except for the bearings he will do if for $1200 " I said sounds good and Kelly gave me the number I called Nick and he said he could have it done by the end of January which was about 2 weeks from that time period.
Ok, so other than the interactions you had with Kelly, the real issue here as far as time was concerned was with the engine builder. So, with that in mind, I understand where your frustration comes from, but you are directing it at a party that is not completely responsible for the delay. I also understand you being upset with Kelly for the recent situation that happened at the shop, but that also sounds like the culmination of this whole situation. Was it handled professionally? No. Could it have been handled better? Yes. Was the situation 100% the fault of Wrenches? No. There were multiple parties involved in this and no single party can be blamed for the whole problem.

 
Old 04/25/2011, 09:26 PM   #48
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Was it handled professionally? No. Could it have been handled better? Yes. Was the situation 100% the fault of Wrenches? No. There were multiple parties involved in this and no single party can be blamed for the whole problem.
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Old 04/25/2011, 09:31 PM   #49
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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Ok, so other than the interactions you had with Kelly, the real issue here as far as time was concerned was with the engine builder. So, with that in mind, I understand where your frustration comes from, but you are directing it at a party that is not completely responsible for the delay. I also understand you being upset with Kelly for the recent situation that happened at the shop, but that also sounds like the culmination of this whole situation. Was it handled professionally? No. Could it have been handled better? Yes. Was the situation 100% the fault of Wrenches? No. There were multiple parties involved in this and no single party can be blamed for the whole problem.
LMAO how many times do I have to say it I posted MY EXPERIENCE with Wrenches I did not direct this at anyone or post this to hurt anyones business I posted this to SHARE my EXPERIENCE with Wrenches and why I WOULD NOT EVER reccomend them to someone else for the instalation of a engine.


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Old 04/25/2011, 09:36 PM   #50
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Default Re: My Experience with Wrenches Automotive

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look i know i am the odd man out i have a probe yes laugh all you want but i took my car to wrenches and they were talking about tearing down the head had the checked out and every thing tested ok along with a brand new head gasket so they were wrong not to mention the fact that they told me that they could get my car in to be looked at the day after i droped it off and when i cam back they were still sayint the same thing but they were 2 or 3 weeks out so i pulled it from wrenches and took it two scots well the cam timing was off so i would have to say wrenches
I seen your car at scotts and it had a lot more problems than a timing belt...we happen to be friends with scott..I dropped off some fittings for your car there..your car had way more problems than just a timing belt..just remember messes take time and when your busy u just don't always have time for messes...but we. Always try our best im sorry not all of u r happy but I like having a job and that means the small stuff comes first becase that's what shops that want to stay alive do and they work on the messes in between or when it slows down...if we only focased on messes we wouldent be here still...

Last edited by that wrenchesguy; 04/25/2011 at 09:47 PM.
 
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