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Old 09/15/2013, 07:53 PM   #1
Bmwz389
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Default One dead cylinder....need help.

Hey guys,

I've been trying to source an issue I've been having on a different forum and we've ran out of ideas so I'm bringing it to a new forum.

My far drivers side cylinder is not firing. At least, not what i can see with my thermal meter. I've done every test under the sun and I cannot figure the problem out.

Tests:

Compression
Old school spark test
Noid pulse test
Switched injectors and plugs around in different formations.

I discovered this problem when I installed my new header, the car had been running rough but I assumed it to be my basemap because I have not tuned it yet.

Plugs, wires, distributor are all brand new. I cannot get the drivers side cylinder to fire like the rest, and it's running real rough.

All tests returned good results. I'm running and grabbing a spark tester tomorrow to actually watch the spark, when I said old school spark test, I put a screwdriver in the plug wire and laid it against the valve cover.

I have tried swapping ecu's and conversion harnesses with no results changed. I also swapped distributors and same results.

Does anybody have an idea of what could be causing me to not get that cylinder to fire over?

I'm grasping at straws at this point....

I should also state that this is an ls/v - B18B1 bottom end, OBD0 B16 head, G/E conversion kit on chipped p28 on Xenocron basemap.

Thanks!

- Brandon


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Old 09/15/2013, 09:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwz389 View Post
Hey guys,

I've been trying to source an issue I've been having on a different forum and we've ran out of ideas so I'm bringing it to a new forum.

My far drivers side cylinder is not firing. At least, not what i can see with my thermal meter. I've done every test under the sun and I cannot figure the problem out.

Tests:

Compression
Old school spark test
Noid pulse test
Switched injectors and plugs around in different formations.

I discovered this problem when I installed my new header, the car had been running rough but I assumed it to be my basemap because I have not tuned it yet.

Plugs, wires, distributor are all brand new. I cannot get the drivers side cylinder to fire like the rest, and it's running real rough.

All tests returned good results. I'm running and grabbing a spark tester tomorrow to actually watch the spark, when I said old school spark test, I put a screwdriver in the plug wire and laid it against the valve cover.

I have tried swapping ecu's and conversion harnesses with no results changed. I also swapped distributors and same results.

Does anybody have an idea of what could be causing me to not get that cylinder to fire over?

I'm grasping at straws at this point....

I should also state that this is an ls/v - B18B1 bottom end, OBD0 B16 head, G/E conversion kit on chipped p28 on Xenocron basemap.

Thanks!

- Brandon
Ok, so by new are we talking about a brand spanken new distributor from Honda or a reman unit from let's say Oreilly's or competitor?

Also, did you change cap and rotor?

What were the compression readings you got back?

Is it JUST running rough or are you also having issues with start up....like at times it cranks over and over until it turns on?

Is the roughness upon start up or does it gradually become more evident when the car warms up?

Is the swaped in distributor from a good know working vehicle?

Is timing dead on to where everything lines up as it should?

What spark plugs and wire set did you use? And are any of the spark plugs fowled out/burnt black on all or just the first cylinder?

Is the spark plug on cylinder one sorta wet with fuel when you check it?

Prior to everything that has been done....has it always ran rough from the get go or it started out of nowhere?

Have you tried checking with Central Imports or any other shops that tune to see if the basemap could be causing an issue? Keep in mind not all basemaps are created equal.

Shoot, I'm running out of questions but I figured the more info you can provide us the more likely we could possibly point you I'm the right direction.

Last edited by importsusa; 09/15/2013 at 09:52 PM.

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Old 09/16/2013, 10:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

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Originally Posted by importsusa View Post
Ok, so by new are we talking about a brand spanken new distributor from Honda or a reman unit from let's say Oreilly's or competitor? -- It was an ebay dizzy, but I tested with an OEM honda dizzy, I want to test with another honda dizzy as well as the one i tried wasn't in the best shape but it was known to idle fine

Also, did you change cap and rotor? -- The whole unit was new, is it necessary to swap cap/rotor?

What were the compression readings you got back? -- 275/270/280/280 COLD and I didnt have the throttle wide open

Is it JUST running rough or are you also having issues with start up....like at times it cranks over and over until it turns on? -- It rough starts as well, I know my MFR causes me issues from time to time

Is the roughness upon start up or does it gradually become more evident when the car warms up? -- Rough from the start

Is the swaped in distributor from a good know working vehicle? -- See above lol

Is timing dead on to where everything lines up as it should? -- I will recheck, electrical timing was spot on until I swapped dizzys, mechanical looked sound but I can check again

What spark plugs and wire set did you use? And are any of the spark plugs fowled out/burnt black on all or just the first cylinder? -- Autozone plug wires, the plugs are NGK gapped to .44 recommended by a a build thread i was following here --> http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914 - Plugs were consistent except for the non running cylinder

Is the spark plug on cylinder one sorta wet with fuel when you check it? -- Dead cylinder was wet and smelled of fuel

Prior to everything that has been done....has it always ran rough from the get go or it started out of nowhere? -- It's been so long that I couldn't answer that question.

Have you tried checking with Central Imports or any other shops that tune to see if the basemap could be causing an issue? Keep in mind not all basemaps are created equal. -- I've talked with sean a few times and he's given me some leads, I always wanted to assume the basemap was whacked, but was never sure

Shoot, I'm running out of questions but I figured the more info you can provide us the more likely we could possibly point you I'm the right direction.
I hope I answered everything well, I know some questions diden't have solid answers, like I said I've been hunting this problem for weeks and don't want to drive it with a dead cylinder. I also do hear an intermittent ticking noise. Not consistent at all. It could be something inside the motor, but could easily be a loose bolt from the swap. It sounds more internal than anything, which is why I don't want to drive it.

Rod, you know the common G2 water leak at the cowl and it did get my jumper harness wet and start to corrode some wires, that's why I swapped ECU and jumper harness with known working parts.

- Brandon


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Old 09/17/2013, 10:52 AM   #4
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

Have you checked the firing order? Id like to take a look at it for you sometime if youd like. I do have a timing light so we can check the timing. Pm me if interested

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Old 09/17/2013, 12:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

Firing order should be correct and i have a timing light. Timing is off due to swapping the distributor but I can retime it.


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Old 09/18/2013, 02:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

I checked and rechecked valve lash today. Nothing loose that would cause that ticking noise. All lash was good, I tightened up a few but they were probably not off. Nothing on CYL 1.

I'm looking at my timing at TDC on the crank. Keep in mind this is an LS/V so some slight degree offset is expected. Does this appear to be a tooth off to anyone?



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Old 09/18/2013, 03:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

Here's a better picture. Crank pulley lined to TDC:



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Old 09/21/2013, 01:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

More questions for ya...lol

When you fire it up are you able to notice a difference when you pull cylinder 1 spark plug wire off or it just seems the same?

Have you looked at the inside of the distributor cap to see if there are any imperfections?

Have you looked at the spark plugs to see if they are burning as they should? As in to see if cylinder one spark plug is even doing anything?

Have you checked ANY of the wires on the plug harness going to the distributor for any damaged wires or even to the ecu? I saw you said you had the infamous leak and trust me when I say it CAN damage a lot of crap under that dash without noticeable visual aids.


Reason I ask all this is because if you smell fuel and spark plug/or cylinder is wet with fuel it means you have an injector getting the fuel into place. The fact that it is not getting burned somewhat tells me the spark is very weak or no existent. If anything I am trying to run through every tiny little thing you can think of....even if it sounds dumb to check or "not necessary" I still would because the little things can definitely make a huge difference. Ecu basemap is still on the back of my mind still as there might be that slim chance something may not be set properly......but if anything I would strongly continue looking through the ignition system to completely rule out any faults.


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Old 09/21/2013, 06:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by importsusa View Post
More questions for ya...lol

When you fire it up are you able to notice a difference when you pull cylinder 1 spark plug wire off or it just seems the same?

Have you looked at the inside of the distributor cap to see if there are any imperfections?

Have you looked at the spark plugs to see if they are burning as they should? As in to see if cylinder one spark plug is even doing anything?

Have you checked ANY of the wires on the plug harness going to the distributor for any damaged wires or even to the ecu? I saw you said you had the infamous leak and trust me when I say it CAN damage a lot of crap under that dash without noticeable visual aids.


Reason I ask all this is because if you smell fuel and spark plug/or cylinder is wet with fuel it means you have an injector getting the fuel into place. The fact that it is not getting burned somewhat tells me the spark is very weak or no existent. If anything I am trying to run through every tiny little thing you can think of....even if it sounds dumb to check or "not necessary" I still would because the little things can definitely make a huge difference. Ecu basemap is still on the back of my mind still as there might be that slim chance something may not be set properly......but if anything I would strongly continue looking through the ignition system to completely rule out any faults.
was just browsing thru this, but if the basemap was still off it should still be able to have power on all cylinders?

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Old 09/21/2013, 07:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

So.....

Turns out it was indeed a faulty injector. It somehow hid itself because I swapped cyl 1 & 2 and saw no difference. But I think I was still getting a hot reading off the other primaries. i ended up switching cyl 1 & 4 and 4 went dead. Swapped injectors and problem solved! I can't believe it snuck past me like that...This car has it out for me I swear lol. I'm afraid to even drive it now cause its an integra with a vengeance haha.


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Old 09/22/2013, 01:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwz389 View Post
So.....

Turns out it was indeed a faulty injector. It somehow hid itself because I swapped cyl 1 & 2 and saw no difference. But I think I was still getting a hot reading off the other primaries. i ended up switching cyl 1 & 4 and 4 went dead. Swapped injectors and problem solved! I can't believe it snuck past me like that...This car has it out for me I swear lol. I'm afraid to even drive it now cause its an integra with a vengeance haha.
Always the small things that can make a huge difference.....now that its fixed, let's get those control arms on and finish this up huh? LOL


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Old 09/22/2013, 04:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

Hah hell yeah! Now as soon as I fix the roaming idle she should be road ready. Hate to keep delaying it but I expected none of these issues.


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Old 09/22/2013, 09:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

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Hah hell yeah! Now as soon as I fix the roaming idle she should be road ready. Hate to keep delaying it but I expected none of these issues.
Dude, dont worry about delays and what not....an essential part of building a vehicle involves trial, error and set backs along the way. It is how we essentially learn from our own mistakes and strive to keep building our dreams.....shit, if everything in life were as easy as putting shit together and having it work from the get go....nothing would be worth doing because you'd always know it is going to work out no matter what.

Just the fact you searched and searched and finally found the issue should be quite the reward and eventually make it to were you enjoy your car even more in the end. Just take your time, have PATIENCE!! and make sure all is buttoned up before we move on to her next face lift....lol


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Old 09/22/2013, 09:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: One dead cylinder....need help.

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I'm afraid to even drive it now cause its an integra with a vengeance haha.
This sounds like a great opportunity for a decal.....maybe. LS-Vengeance.....

I.ts
N.ot
T.he
E.ntirely
G.reatest
R.oad
A.utomobile

LOL ha ha....you get my point...lol


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