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Old 09/07/2011, 09:17 AM   #1
two four dee
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Default Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Hey, this is Moncef, I'm from Cedar Rapids.

I'm gonna keep this short and sweet - I had Leon Wilson from Random House Racing (Lee_MA61) on here install some JWT S1 cams/HR valvetrain in my '01 Maxima. This post is rather late because I've been focusing on getting the car running and changing up a few things on the build over the summer.

When I got the car back, two weeks later, it died 10 miles away from my house. A list of what I saw on the car when trying to get it running again...
  • Random ground cables disconnected.
  • Knock sensor not hooked up (subharness damaged)
  • Crank position sensor (one of them) hanging out of my transmission
  • Belt squeal - tensioner was damaged after install.

Even afterwards, my troubles were not over - The car was running low 11s/high 10s AFR in CLOSED LOOP, and was slower than a stock 3.0 Maxima. Leon said this has to be a tuning issue - how a car with stock MAF, stock ECU and functioning O2 sensors and stock injector PW (confirmed using the e-Manage logger) runs this kind of AFR is beyond me.

So I had another tech check the timing, and lo and behold it was set incorrectly. LOL so after going back and forth between Leon, trying to state that the timing was off and was the cause for the poor performance, he denied any wrongdoing. I had a leakdown test done, and you could physically hear air escaping the intake filter when the valves were supposed to be closed. Leon denied this meaning anything, so while I had some fresh heads getting assembled at a local machine shop, I got this sweet picture of one of the valves. There's a lot more where this came from.



Since neither Leon feels compelled to think he doesn't have to do anything about it after bending the valves on my car, I am just letting you fellas know what's up when it comes to their "business".

Thank you all for your time.

Moncef Faik
moncef.faik@gmail.com


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Old 09/07/2011, 10:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Where is the place of business located? I would just report to the BBB.

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Old 09/07/2011, 11:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

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Originally Posted by Pandaimpreza View Post
Where is the place of business located? I would just report to the BBB.
It's in Norwalk IA - I may end up doing so, we'll see how far this goes in the coming weeks.


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Old 09/07/2011, 11:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.



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Old 09/07/2011, 11:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

This posting is pointless. Hopefully this will shed some light on the subject as I'm sure other people would like to hear both ends of the story. I personally saw that your timing chain had been checked multiple times to ensure it was in the correct position. Yes the car did take longer to complete then what was expected but there were many problems that came up throughout working on it. As for your tensionor, we told you it broke while taking things apart. It was incredibly rusty, and as everyone knows rusty parts break. Anyone who has worked on a car has broken at least one bolt in their lives that was rusty. Also note that we told you about this and a new one was never purchased. You had a fixed price that you were going to pay and we had a set job that was going to be done. Yet throughout the job you added things for us to do yet there was no increase in payment. We took care of the valve that was broken and were not ever aware of a bent one as we installed the springs and retainers without removing the heads. We did have to remove the one head after that valve broke/dropped and after that one was replaced we immediately put it back on. We were also being rushed, day and night receiving calls about it, my girlfriend who wasn't even working on it was receiving texts from you about it. Now to continue, sorry about any disconnected grounds, if you can recall you were here to pick it up before everything was finished. The car hadn't been started and everything hadn't been checked when you came here. We never had any time to test anything on it. Look at how long it took for you to have your valves removed, we did that in 3 days not a couple months.

I also want to touch ground on the tuning aspect of things. Closed Loop doesn't just magically tune your car after driving on the interstate. If it did, nobody would ever need to get their cars tuned as it would "tune itself" Get in, drive, have your car tune itself for you. You put larger cams in your car, the AFR are going to change after that.

Now as for the knock sensor wire, I was not here for that so I myself was not aware of that being a problem and I apologize for it. Same for the sensor that was not in place correctly as I was also not here for that.

Lastly here I have photos that were sent to us from you. This was after you calling and emailing us.

Here is the timing chain, in the photos you didn't have the chain in the right position as you can't even see the indicator marks. You claimed that we were off by 2 teeth, if so chain marks would be showing on both banks and off by 2 teeth. Without the chain even showing the marks we were lead to believe that you were not capable of determining any problem you were having. Also I've included the photo of the leak down test you sent us. Of by what, 3~4% that's completely normal.






Last I would like to add that we made a call out to Nissan to check on what would happen if we were off by 2 teeth on the timing chain. I was told the car would not start and if it did start it would run incredibly rough but that would be a one in a million chance that it even started to begin with. Other things I read on different forums indicate if even turned over that way it would break a valve and blow your motor. All I have seen is one bent valve. Every single valve would be bent/broken if the timing chain was off the way you said.

There has been no reply from you to us since July 13th about this. Then suddenly last night I found attacks on our Facebook page. Talk to us about the valve, not posting attacks on facebook and jdmcity.


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Old 09/07/2011, 11:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
This posting is pointless. Hopefully this will shed some light on the subject as I'm sure other people would like to hear both ends of the story. I personally saw that your timing chain had been checked multiple times to ensure it was in the correct position.

I also want to touch ground on the tuning aspect of things. Closed Loop doesn't just magically tune your car after driving on the interstate. If it did, nobody would ever need to get their cars tuned as it would "tune itself" Get in, drive, have your car tune itself for you. You put larger cams in your car, the AFR are going to change after that.

Now as for the knock sensor wire, I was not here for that so I myself was not aware of that being a problem and I apologize for it. Same for the sensor that was not in place correctly as I was also not here for that.

Lastly here I have photos that were sent to us from you. This was after you calling and emailing us.

Here is the timing chain, in the photos you didn't have the chain in the right position as you can't even see the indicator marks. You claimed that we were off by 2 teeth, if so chain marks would be showing on both banks and off by 2 teeth. Without the chain even showing the marks we were lead to believe that you were not capable of determining any problem you were having. Also I've included the photo of the leak down test you sent us. Of by what, 3~4% that's completely normal.

Last I would like to add that we made a call out to Nissan to check on what would happen if we were off by 2 teeth on the timing chain. I was told the car would not start and if it did start it would run incredibly rough but that would be a one in a million chance that it even started to begin with. Other things I read on different forums indicate if even turned over that way it would break a valve and blow your motor. All I have seen is one bent valve. Every single valve would be bent/broken if the timing chain was off the way you said.

There has been no reply from you to us since July 13th about this. Then suddenly last night I found attacks on our Facebook page. Talk to us about the valve, not posting attacks on facebook and jdmcity.
The car will not tune itself. But at part throttle/cruise the car is not supposed to be at 10.x AFR. That is the whole point of closed loop.

I talked to you guys about the leakdown test, which was greeted by "Oh, it's just your worn out engine leaking past the rings." Clearly not the case, the valve is here, you were not trying to hear anything about the timing being off or the car running poorly. Of course, you and Leon had an answer to everything, ultimately coming down to the leakdown test still being within a +/- 5% "tolerance".

So, the bent valves are out of the heads, it took three months for various reasons. Now what are you and your boy about to do about it?


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Old 09/07/2011, 11:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

i find it to be an extreme coincidence that if the tensioner was that rusty, why did it break only an hour or so after Leon finished the car?

also, the added services you provided during the build were due to leon's mistake of dropping a valve into a cylinder and having to take off the head. That one is all on him.

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Old 09/07/2011, 11:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by two four dee View Post
Hey, this is Moncef, I'm from Cedar Rapids.
I thought your name was Kyle?

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Old 09/07/2011, 11:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

at the end of the day, it comes down to the fact that this car was running perfectly before Random House Racing touched it.

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Old 09/07/2011, 02:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
This posting is pointless. Hopefully this will shed some light on the subject as I'm sure other people would like to hear both ends of the story. I personally saw that your timing chain had been checked multiple times to ensure it was in the correct position. Yes the car did take longer to complete then what was expected but there were many problems that came up throughout working on it. As for your tensionor, we told you it broke while taking things apart. It was incredibly rusty, and as everyone knows rusty parts break. Anyone who has worked on a car has broken at least one bolt in their lives that was rusty. Also note that we told you about this and a new one was never purchased. You had a fixed price that you were going to pay and we had a set job that was going to be done. Yet throughout the job you added things for us to do yet there was no increase in payment. We took care of the valve that was broken and were not ever aware of a bent one as we installed the springs and retainers without removing the heads. We did have to remove the one head after that valve broke/dropped and after that one was replaced we immediately put it back on. We were also being rushed, day and night receiving calls about it, my girlfriend who wasn't even working on it was receiving texts from you about it. Now to continue, sorry about any disconnected grounds, if you can recall you were here to pick it up before everything was finished. The car hadn't been started and everything hadn't been checked when you came here. We never had any time to test anything on it. Look at how long it took for you to have your valves removed, we did that in 3 days not a couple months.
I didn't add anything for you to do. I agreed with Leon the terms of the install and timeline. Cams, springs, oil pump. As far as me coming before it was done, well, Leon told me the car was done, fluids filled and on the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
Now as for the knock sensor wire, I was not here for that so I myself was not aware of that being a problem and I apologize for it. Same for the sensor that was not in place correctly as I was also not here for that. All I have seen is one bent valve. Every single valve would be bent/broken if the timing chain was off the way you said.
All valves on the rear bank were bent. The fronts were OK but still, half the valves were bent. But if I pull the 11 remaining valves out of that old, stock head, what are you gonna say?

Do something about it, I can wash my hands from all this, and I don't wanna hear anymore excuses. Expectations were set to install parts in my car and I had the pleasure of doing a full top-end build post-installation, while you were adamant that it was just because of other minor issues pertaining to the ECU/tuning/whatever.

PS: You both have my email so get hold of me when you actually feel like making this right.

Last edited by two four dee; 09/07/2011 at 02:51 PM.

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Old 09/07/2011, 03:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacEK View Post
I thought your name was Kyle?
yea moncef why are you on kyles name?


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Old 09/07/2011, 04:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to show me that the chain was off. I have nothing to go by other then what you've said and a picture of a bent valve. I've seen what happens to a valve when it hits a piston and it doesn't end up just slightly bent that way. A picture of the chain and the crank gear showing that the timing was off is what we asked for. If you had given that to us we would have done something. We got a picture of just the top gears without anything being in the right position. And not one of the crank gear. It just seems like you're trying to scam us. We would have gladly done something about this if we had been given proof of this.

There are many things that could have thrown your AFR off as well, I don't know much about how the maximas act when a knock sensor is unplugged but if it's anything like a honda or a toyota acts then it would have thrown your car in "limp" mode which could explain the AFR.

Like I said I really have nothing to show that the timing chain was off by 2 teeth. Until I have that I'm not going to do anything for you. So why don't you just "keep it 100."


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Old 09/07/2011, 06:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
I've seen what happens to a valve when it hits a piston and it doesn't end up just slightly bent that way. A picture of the chain and the crank gear showing that the timing was off is what we asked for. If you had given that to us we would have done something. We got a picture of just the top gears without anything being in the right position. And not one of the crank gear. It just seems like you're trying to scam us. We would have gladly done something about this if we had been given proof of this.

There are many things that could have thrown your AFR off as well, I don't know much about how the maximas act when a knock sensor is unplugged but if it's anything like a honda or a toyota acts then it would have thrown your car in "limp" mode which could explain the AFR.

Like I said I really have nothing to show that the timing chain was off by 2 teeth. Until I have that I'm not going to do anything for you. So why don't you just "keep it 100."
Scam you, really? The leakdown test and bent valves are the ultimate result of Leon not timing the car correctly. This is my car, and like anyone else on here, I spent most of the time getting the car torn apart, getting fresh parts and getting it back together, not going back and forth between someone who already broke my car about how the crank isn't set in the right place, the leakdown test means nothing, etc.

I asked my tech that when he initially checked the timing, with the crank in the correct position, he said it was off. So you're gonna tell me another, much more experienced technician straight up lied to me, all for a few dollars? The way the engine sits in the car makes it hard to see anyways, so I'm fairly certain even if I did produce pictures of it (as opposed to working on the car), we would have had the same result.

"If you had given that to us we would have done something"

And IF the timing was timed correctly as you claim, I would definitely not have several bent VQ Nissan valves sitting in my stock heads. You're saying the timing was correct. I pulled bent valves out of my stock heads and you're still saying the timing is correct.

As for "keeping it 100", well the random disconnected sensors, ground cables, and broken internals are a testament to the quality of your shop's work.


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Old 09/07/2011, 06:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

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yea moncef why are you on kyles name?
Stole it. Nah, he let me use it, I don't post enough on JDMcity to make a thread in here.


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Old 09/07/2011, 07:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Like I said before once we have the proof we need we will do something. Till then I'm out, make sure you keep it 100.


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Old 09/07/2011, 11:08 PM   #16
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Old 09/28/2011, 01:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Has this issue been resolved?


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Old 09/28/2011, 11:52 AM   #18
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

what type of motor is it? interference? If so the RHR is correct, it wont run with 1 tooth off much less 2.

From experience when pistons hit valves.. its more then a slight bend.

IMO, it should have not left the shop with a "questionable" tensioner. Thas on both RHR and the owner.. If the owner is such a car person. then you should have paid for a new part... Then you would have a much better case.

IMO, i side with RHR, theres not enuf PROOF.... those timing pix dont show anything..

Limp mode is prob the reason for poor performance.

Your leak down test, how long did you have air in there for? Air will leak down over time. so your percentage means nothing if we dont know how long it took for it to leak.. If it took 20 mins to loos a few Psi, then your fine. If it took seconds, something wrong. Hope you get it fixed.. but seems like form what i read, you need to realize shit can happen with modded cars, weather its 5 miles or 50000 miles.. dont rush the people working on your baby.. just like you dont piss off people serving your food. gl!

Keep it 100? wtf does this mean.. lol


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Old 09/28/2011, 01:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

The issue has not been resolved yet. A complaint was filed through the BBB a few weeks ago, we replied to it immediately and have yet to hear a response yet again.

This is a high interference motor also.


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Old 09/28/2011, 01:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

im thinking the tensioner gave out after the install.. he should have had you guys replace it.

This is what happens when you go cheap on installs etc.. oh well. IMO. Not RHR's fault.


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Old 09/28/2011, 01:38 PM   #21
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

I should add that the tensionor we are talking about was for the serpantine belt. Not the timing chain.


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Old 09/28/2011, 01:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Ah i c. either way, IF it were off like he claims.. it would have never ran. Something happend later on down the road.


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Old 09/28/2011, 06:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

A Honda will run like complete poop with it being off a tooth. That is about 12* of timing difference on a Honda cam gear. I am guessing that timing being off on that VQis probably about the same. And if it is in limp mode, that would explain 150% the differences you were seeing in AFR's. Limp mode is exactly that. Timing goes safely retarded, injector pulses are lengthened to keep the engine cooler and keep power down, so I can definitely see how you were seeing those AFR's.

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Old 10/08/2011, 12:40 PM   #24
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

good guy if im thinkin right! my buddy bought a black mustang off you and recently got a cobra from you!


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Old 10/21/2011, 03:18 AM   #25
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Default Re: Leon Wilson // Random House Racing.

Wanted to post on here that the issue has been resolved through the BBB and found us not at fault.


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