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Old 01/23/2012, 07:08 AM   #1
wwbubbajoe
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Default B16a2 build

Before i go out and waste a bunch of money i dont have on things i dont need, listen to this and tell me if im on the right track. my goal is 250whp. I want a reliable car for weekends that i can also drive to work on occasion. im thinking of putting a turbo system on but im wondering which. Im thinking maybe a .60/ .63a/r T3? I should be able to hit 250whp or so with that im thinking but i was hoping to get more experienced opinions. can i run factory compression with this or should i drop it down a bit by changing out valves? i know i will probably have to put a fuel pump in it and some injectors and hondata or crome, ill leave that up to the tuner. also, am i missing anything? lol. thanks for reading


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Old 01/23/2012, 03:14 PM   #2
H22APWRD94
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Default Re: B16a2 build

You can boost a stock B16 at its current compression ratio, but it will require a lot safer tune than dropping the compression ratio by using a thicker head gasket. There have been stock B16's that have held 400+ whp, but that is some pretty extreme cases.

A good T3/T04E based turbo will be very good for the setup you are wanting. Something with a smaller exhaust A/R will spool quickly and be very responsive, but will be lacking in top end flow if you ever look to increase power on your setup. If you go to a larger A/R, you will gain some top end power, but the power will come on a little bit later. You can run any sort of manifold you want at that power level, as the power level you are looking for will not really ouflow any manifold design. I would recommend not going cheap on the important parts (read no ebay crap). Buy a good wastegate and a good turbo, and invest in a good oil line setup. B&R Fittings Those guys have some great prices on kits and it is top quality stuff. It is who I got my setup from. They provide the proper size fiting (BSPT) for coming off the back of the Honda block, and have very good knowledge of the product and purpose of their product. I run their -4 feed kit, but you really only need a -3. I would also plan on picking up the proper sized restrictor for your turbo, and check your pressure at the turbo and see if you need it. It will definitely extend the life of your turbo. For a return line, I would see if Jeremy at JB Autosports can match Lightning Motorsports pricing on a Moroso oil pan. Easiest way to take care of your return line setup. Those are really your most important hard parts. Get a good 3 bar MAP sensor, and probably somewhere between 550-750cc injectors (depending on fuel choice) and get to a good tuner. I know a guy that does pretty decent work.

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Old 01/25/2012, 01:26 AM   #3
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Default Re: B16a2 build

Quote:
Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
You can boost a stock B16 at its current compression ratio, but it will require a lot safer tune than dropping the compression ratio by using a thicker head gasket. There have been stock B16's that have held 400+ whp, but that is some pretty extreme cases.

A good T3/T04E based turbo will be very good for the setup you are wanting. Something with a smaller exhaust A/R will spool quickly and be very responsive, but will be lacking in top end flow if you ever look to increase power on your setup. If you go to a larger A/R, you will gain some top end power, but the power will come on a little bit later. You can run any sort of manifold you want at that power level, as the power level you are looking for will not really ouflow any manifold design. I would recommend not going cheap on the important parts (read no ebay crap). Buy a good wastegate and a good turbo, and invest in a good oil line setup. B&R Fittings Those guys have some great prices on kits and it is top quality stuff. It is who I got my setup from. They provide the proper size fiting (BSPT) for coming off the back of the Honda block, and have very good knowledge of the product and purpose of their product. I run their -4 feed kit, but you really only need a -3. I would also plan on picking up the proper sized restrictor for your turbo, and check your pressure at the turbo and see if you need it. It will definitely extend the life of your turbo. For a return line, I would see if Jeremy at JB Autosports can match Lightning Motorsports pricing on a Moroso oil pan. Easiest way to take care of your return line setup. Those are really your most important hard parts. Get a good 3 bar MAP sensor, and probably somewhere between 550-750cc injectors (depending on fuel choice) and get to a good tuner. I know a guy that does pretty decent work.
I know it a stupid thing for me to say so im gonna regret this, but the high end will have support from the VTEC. I would never buy anything off ebay. What your saying is that I dont really need to change anything internally? I was thinking about sleeving the block and changing pistons and having the crank at least balanced and get machine work done for the bottom end. The top i was going to have machined and maybe change cams. Can I still drop compression a little to help the block? or is it a waste with my power goal?


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Old 01/25/2012, 01:35 AM   #4
Charlie Moua
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Default Re: B16a2 build

really you only want 250whp?

that's easily done with out breaking the bank but still decent qaulity parts.

lmk if you want me to give you a shopping list.

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Old 01/25/2012, 02:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: B16a2 build

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Originally Posted by Charlie Moua View Post
really you only want 250whp?

that's easily done with out breaking the bank but still decent qaulity parts.

lmk if you want me to give you a shopping list.
hit me with the list and ill compare with the half ass list i have. lol


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Old 01/25/2012, 10:04 AM   #6
Charlie Moua
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Default Re: B16a2 build

honestly for 250whp you don't have to go e85... sure it'll make a few more ponies and help keep your burning cooler but it's not a game changer with your whp goals.


Keep in mind this list is based of what i feel is decent quality which will not sacrafice performance or reliability. There better parts but that cost more too. Also if your only shooting for 250whp, youll be faster in any race if you have a quicker spooling turbo full boost before 4K)

pte 780cc injectors *** 450cc will not be enough
walbro 255lph intake fuel pump
cast bseries t25 blox manifold
used 16g evo turbo (we made 330whp on our b16 stock at 16psi)
filter on turbo inlet
2.5" dp is fine but go 3" if you want
flex pipe
stealthmode oil line kit & fittings
cx racing charge piping kit (inlcudes couplers & tbolt clamps)
cx racing fmic (grill of most civic bumpers are apprx 9x6... no need to go thicker than 2.5" core)
what ever BOV you want cheaper the better, ebay greddy replica ect, junk yard dms is fine too don't spend more than $120
3 bar map sensor like omni
6 puck clutch like cc or act which will be able to take the heat
autometer mechanical oil pressure gauge
autometer mechanical boost gauge
dual pod pillar or whatever you want
new oil pan gasket
obd1 ecu jumper harnes & dist jumper harness (if your nto already obd1)
obd1 dist
obd1 ecu with crome



optional:
heat wrap your down pipe to keep bay temps cooler
lightweight fw 9-11lbs
autometer electical oil temp gauge
change out your head gasket with oem & use arp head studs
inspect timing belt & tensioner - replace if needed
liquide filled fuel pressure gauge mounted on fuel filter or before the fuel rail



It shouldn't cost you more than $1500-1700 for parts


DONT waste money on:
wideband
larger tb
fancy IM
huge turbo & then extra cost of a extra wg
egt probe and gauge

Last edited by Charlie Moua; 01/25/2012 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 01/25/2012, 10:11 AM   #7
H22APWRD94
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Default Re: B16a2 build

What I am saying regarding the power curve, is the engine will out breath the turbo at a certain point. The smaller A/R housing will be extremely responsive, but will limit the amount of power you can make. It will only be able to flow so much. So, base your goal off of what you want to do with it. We can deal with turbo sizing from there. And yes, you can spend the money to do all of the hard parts replacement, and build what should be a bulletproof setup, but your power goals do not necessitate that. A simple upgrade to the head with springs and retainers and GSR cams would make a nice difference. New headgasket, timing belt, oil pump and head studs while you are at it would be best.

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Old 01/26/2012, 02:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: B16a2 build

Quote:
Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
What I am saying regarding the power curve, is the engine will out breath the turbo at a certain point. The smaller A/R housing will be extremely responsive, but will limit the amount of power you can make. It will only be able to flow so much. So, base your goal off of what you want to do with it. We can deal with turbo sizing from there. And yes, you can spend the money to do all of the hard parts replacement, and build what should be a bulletproof setup, but your power goals do not necessitate that. A simple upgrade to the head with springs and retainers and GSR cams would make a nice difference. New headgasket, timing belt, oil pump and head studs while you are at it would be best.
That was kind of what i was thinking but also replacing the internals such as rods, pistons, etc with oem just so they dont have 130,000 miles of wear. try to start off completely fresh.


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Old 01/26/2012, 09:40 AM   #9
Charlie Moua
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Default Re: B16a2 build

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwbubbajoe View Post
That was kind of what i was thinking but also replacing the internals such as rods, pistons, etc with oem just so they dont have 130,000 miles of wear. try to start off completely fresh.
do you know if your engine currently runs well right now?
compression test?



Yes you can upgrade internals to forged rods & pistons, but that doesn't mean your engine will run better than a BONE STOCK b16 hitting 250whp.

If your LONGTERM plans are to turn up the boost and make +350whp in the future then yes go ahead and upgrade to forged rods & pistons. But if your only keeping it at 250whp and very sure of it, don't waste your money on rods and pistons.


You can simply just rebuild your current b16
$25-30 for all (hotanked pistons) reuse stock pistons
$70 new hastings rings
$35 arp rod bolts 8mm
$40 hone the large end of the rod ... some shops call it "recondition"
$50 hot tank block
$60 media blasting if you want it looking newer
$40 decking block
$80-100 to hone block
$80 new oem oil pump
$60 polished crank
$40 resurfaced head
$20 VITON valve seals (highly reccomended for any boosted car) cheap assurance

then you have your regular stuff
oil pan gasket, front main(crank) seal, rear main(crank) seal, thermo, head gasket, water pump, tensioner, belts ... ect

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Old 01/26/2012, 03:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: B16a2 build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Moua View Post
do you know if your engine currently runs well right now?
compression test?



Yes you can upgrade internals to forged rods & pistons, but that doesn't mean your engine will run better than a BONE STOCK b16 hitting 250whp.

If your LONGTERM plans are to turn up the boost and make +350whp in the future then yes go ahead and upgrade to forged rods & pistons. But if your only keeping it at 250whp and very sure of it, don't waste your money on rods and pistons.


You can simply just rebuild your current b16
$25-30 for all (hotanked pistons) reuse stock pistons
$70 new hastings rings
$35 arp rod bolts 8mm
$40 hone the large end of the rod ... some shops call it "recondition"
$50 hot tank block
$60 media blasting if you want it looking newer
$40 decking block
$80-100 to hone block
$80 new oem oil pump
$60 polished crank
$40 resurfaced head
$20 VITON valve seals (highly reccomended for any boosted car) cheap assurance

then you have your regular stuff
oil pan gasket, front main(crank) seal, rear main(crank) seal, thermo, head gasket, water pump, tensioner, belts ... ect
im not sure what i will do. i guess having the availability to turn up the boost would be nice.

my current engine is in the car bone stock right now. it runs fine and compession test is ok.

where are you getting these prices from? everyone i have talked to in the omaha area are way higher. one placed i called quoted me 1200 for less than this. lol


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Old 01/26/2012, 04:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: B16a2 build

b20z block b16a2 head. itr cams, 7-8 lb flywheel, b16 trans with 4.785 final, ctr crank pulley, and other bolt ons. realiable and really quick.

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Old 01/27/2012, 02:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: B16a2 build

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b20z block b16a2 head. itr cams, 7-8 lb flywheel, b16 trans with 4.785 final, ctr crank pulley, and other bolt ons. realiable and really quick.
I have all that (except 12 lbs flywheel) with a turbine charger unit in a ef


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