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Old 07/10/2012, 11:36 AM   #1
Bmwz389
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Default Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

I just got done swapping my 92 ls cable tranny into the car, hanging all the linkages and running the clutch cable.

When we fired it up it went into all gears fine, no grinds, pops or any noise. Smooth like butter.

We came back the next day and the SOB won't go into any gear. It only goes into gear when the integra is not running. It'll sometimes go in if you force it, which we try not to do.

We adjusted the shit out of the original cable, bought a new cable/adjusted and still no fix.

The tranny was said to be a working transmission. I bought a new flywheel, pressure plate/clutch/pilot/throwout kit from Exedy for the correct year (92), all new flywheel/pressure plate bolts. Lock tite was installed on the bolts.

To my knowledge everything went in correctly. When I bought the tranny there was nothing on the input shaft other than the original throw out bearing.

To recap:

New everything, OEM spec.
Went into gear fine with first start up
Does not go into gear now, if forced it whines and grinds. I can start it in gear but cannot shift gears.

Does anyone have a clue as to what could be the issue? Am I missing a part on the input shaft? To my knowledge the pilot/throw out bearings can only go in one way, as well as the shift lever into the transmission.

Is there a way to differentiate between 90-91 and 92-93 YS1 transmissions?

Please, any help would be great as it's at my buddies house and it can't stay there much longer.

Thanks!

- Brandon


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Old 07/10/2012, 12:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Did u put new fluid in it after installing? Didn't see that info on here. Heat does kill trannys.

But it sounds like a clutch issue though.

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Old 07/10/2012, 12:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Yes. I forgot to state that. I put in the required capacities of Honda Transmission Fluid straight from the dealer.


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Old 07/10/2012, 01:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Are you thinking the clutch specifically or the clutch and its drivetrain?

If I remember correctly the differences between the transmission are different pilot bearing sizes and the throwout, the splines should be the same if i remember right, otherwise the clutch wouldn't have gone on. BUT, it's confusing because if that were the case, then I have the correct clutch kit for the tranny because the pilot wouldn't have fit in its recess.

I've done a lot of reading and there is a possibility that the clutch plate is installed backwards. I'm just hoping for a little insight before we pull the tranny AGAIN


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Old 07/10/2012, 02:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Does the clutch have them springs on it? I know once my clutch springs came loose... it wouldn't let me shift either. U might have the clutch on backwards if its a bnib clutch kit. If the tranny went right in smoothly the most likely you have the right clutch for the tranny.

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Old 07/10/2012, 02:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

If I remember right the tranny went on smooth. Are you talking about the Marcel springs? Like for the clutches that compress?

It was BNIB, I'm not sure if we looked for a directional marking.

The difference between 90-91 and 92-93 from Exedy's site is the Major Diameter. it's 1/16" difference. It's totla is 1-1/16th.

I assume this is the pilot bearing? Or something else?

- Brandon


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Old 07/10/2012, 04:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

The size difference is actually the spline count and size of the input shaft. The 90-91 transmissions are the small shaft, where as the 92-93 are the bigger shaft that is in the hydro transmissions. A disk that fits the hydro transmissions and the 92-93's, will be wobbly when placed on a 90-91 input shaft. A 90-91 disk will not fit on a 92-93 or hydro input shaft. The pilot bearing should all be the same size.

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Old 07/10/2012, 05:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

I would like to know one thing.

With the car OFF and in gear, are you able to push the car while holding the clutch in. I just want to know if the clutch is disengaging or not.

This will help narrow things down, if you can't move the car then obviously that'll mean your clutch isn't disengaging, which will lead to my following question, did you adjust the cable in the right direction. I highly doubt you made that mistake but even the best of us make stupid little mistakes like that from time to time.

Now if the car is able to move while in gear and you have the clutch held down you'll know it's not a clutch disengagment problem, from there you'll be looking at possible transmission issues. Or other problems.


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Old 07/10/2012, 10:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

I had same issue just needed to adjust the clutch out shifts fine now.


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Old 07/11/2012, 07:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

I can't recall fully if we tried moving it with the tranny in gear, but clutch depressed. I'll have to double check.

We backed the cable off all the way and kept turning it until the cable couldn't be adjusted anymore. Is it possible that too tight will not release the clutch?

H22APWRD94 - Are you sure there is a different tooth count? Exedy's website states they are the same count.

My biggest issue is I was going off what the guy that sold me it had told me, that it was a 92 transmission. So I ordered for the second gen YS1.

Thanks so far for you help guys, it's really starting to stress me out.


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Old 07/11/2012, 11:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwz389 View Post
I can't recall fully if we tried moving it with the tranny in gear, but clutch depressed. I'll have to double check.

We backed the cable off all the way and kept turning it until the cable couldn't be adjusted anymore. Is it possible that too tight will not release the clutch?

H22APWRD94 - Are you sure there is a different tooth count? Exedy's website states they are the same count.

My biggest issue is I was going off what the guy that sold me it had told me, that it was a 92 transmission. So I ordered for the second gen YS1.

Thanks so far for you help guys, it's really starting to stress me out.
You backed it off all the way??? You tighten it removing the slack from the cable itself. If you can lift the clutch fork lever with next to no effort with your hand then it's too loose.

I'll get a pic up quick to show what I'm talking about.

Yes the spline is different tooth wise between the new/old. You would know it if you had bought the wrong clutch. You wouldn't have been able to have driven the car at all.

Last edited by Dj Technick; 07/11/2012 at 11:40 AM.

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Old 07/11/2012, 11:36 AM   #12
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Ok I've got a photo I edited as a reference. Did you tighten the adjustment "nut" in the direction of the arrow or did you go the other way? Because the way the arrow is pointing is the direction it's supposed to go.



Also make sure not to go too far because it'll make it so the clutch is stuck disengaged. What you need to do is adjust it to where the clutch is grabbing halfway or lower on the pedal. You'll have to get out and adjust the cable a few times to get it right, plus there is always driver preference on where you like to have the clutch grab at.


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Old 07/11/2012, 01:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
You backed it off all the way??? You tighten it removing the slack from the cable itself. If you can lift the clutch fork lever with next to no effort with your hand then it's too loose.
If i recall correctly the lever was really loose even with the cable disconnected, and it would go all the way to top and top out on the housing. That's what we're trying to figure out, if the throw out isn't engaging.

But when I press the clutch, it feels as if it's actuating properly.


Also, I can't see pictures while I'm at work so I'll have to check later tonight to answer your question!


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Old 07/11/2012, 01:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

You shouldn't be able to lift the lever up that far without some serious force. I know with an aftermarket clutch on my b20 I couldn't disengage the clutch by lifting up on it with my hand. There's something going on that isn't right if you're able to pull it up so far that it hits the top of the housing.

You're making want to look at your car in person.


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Old 07/11/2012, 02:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Haha you're fuckin telling me man! It's just not making any sense.


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Old 07/11/2012, 02:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

You're in des moines right? You've really got me curious about this one, I wanna know what it is.


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Old 07/11/2012, 09:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Sounds like a possibility that the arm is bent or that the clutch has an issue. For you to feel pedal pressure, it has to be engaging the fingers, or you are feeling the arm bottoming and the pressure you are feeling is the stretching of the cable. Definitely something I would want to see and feel in person.

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Old 07/12/2012, 10:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Yeah in WDM actually. We're gonna try to adjust the cable again one more time before we pull the transmission. If we can't figure out anything I'll more than likely need some more experienced help haha.

It's concerning me because its a manual swap. So I thought for a minute the shift linkage was maybe too far back but it's going through gears fine, leaving it to be a clutch issue, or possibly something internal.

I'll keep you guys updated, it's gonna end up being something really stupid and I'll feel like a fucking idiot lol.


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Old 07/12/2012, 02:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwz389 View Post
Yeah in WDM actually. We're gonna try to adjust the cable again one more time before we pull the transmission. If we can't figure out anything I'll more than likely need some more experienced help haha.

It's concerning me because its a manual swap. So I thought for a minute the shift linkage was maybe too far back but it's going through gears fine, leaving it to be a clutch issue, or possibly something internal.

I'll keep you guys updated, it's gonna end up being something really stupid and I'll feel like a fucking idiot lol.
You have no idea how many times I thought I had some huge major problem and it turned out to be some tiny little mistake. One good example is I forgot to plug my speed sensor in once. I was all confused why my car wouldn't rev past 3500rpm and thought I was in limp mode...because the speed sensor wasn't plugged in launch control was stuck on since the off switch is your speed. I felt really stupid after I finally figured it out.


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Old 07/12/2012, 05:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Alright guys were still at a loss of words. I've done even more research and from what it seems I have the correct clutch, all b series flywheels and pressure plates are the same.the pressure plate fingers are protruding but should be flat when torqued. which they are in my case. If anyone wants to come help feel free. 5152384150 is my number and we could use some help fast!


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Old 07/13/2012, 01:03 AM   #21
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwz389 View Post
Alright guys were still at a loss of words. I've done even more research and from what it seems I have the correct clutch, all b series flywheels and pressure plates are the same.the pressure plate fingers are protruding but should be flat when torqued. which they are in my case. If anyone wants to come help feel free. 5152384150 is my number and we could use some help fast!
I might have time to stop by Friday after I'm off work, I would only be able to look it over quick and try to help point you in the right direction. Saturday I'll have quite a bit of time to possibly help. But it would be earlyish, like from 10am to noon.


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Old 07/13/2012, 10:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Well, it seems to be working for the time being. Shifted smoothly! We'll check again today. The only thing we changed was the torque on the pressure plate bolts. I believe we misread the torque specs and over torqued it. And as we all know, the more you torque the pressure plate bolts, the further flat the fingers lay. We torqued them to 19 ft lbs now.

I double checked all my parts. All b series flywheels are the same except for the ITR, correct?

The clutch should be correct because if it was a smaller spline tranny it wouldn't fit, correct?

The clutch kit came with matched pilot bearing and throw out bearing so those SHOULD be fine.

Where the stabilizer bar is supposed to mount, the mounting location is broken off, and we had to flatten it and tap it to mount the bar, so it leaks from that hole.

The only problem I'm having now is it's still making that bearing whining noise. It almost sounds like when you blow compressed air into a bearing and it spins too fast. BUT, it only makes the noise when the clutch is all the way to the floor.

When we had the clutch off and inspected the parts, the clutch had premature wear on the outer bevel of the splines, as well as the clutch vibration springs looked like theyve had some wear on them, like something was rubbing on them.

Anyone have any idea what would be wearing on them?

This is getting really fucking stupid.


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Old 07/13/2012, 11:58 AM   #23
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

If you're talking about the front torsion mount that bolts to the front of the trans and connects to the front crossmember (I think that's where they bolt up at on the DA) you don't need that mount. Just need your side mounts and rear mount.

As for the noise, you said a whining noise? Like a worn out skateboard bearing noise? That sounds like a throwout bearing.

What had you initially had your pressure plate bolts torqued to??? 19ft-lb is the correct spec, I usually do that or 2-3 more.

What side of the clutch appeared to have the wear on them? The trans side or the motor side?

Now to make you feel better about some other things. I can already guarantee you that you have the right clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing combo going on because if you had bought the wrong clutch you wouldn't have been able to put the trans on, or the car wouldn't drive at all and you would hears some super fucked up noises.


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Old 07/13/2012, 01:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
If you're talking about the front torsion mount that bolts to the front of the trans and connects to the front crossmember (I think that's where they bolt up at on the DA) you don't need that mount. Just need your side mounts and rear mount.
No I'm talking about where the shift linkage stabilizer bar that bolts fro the shifter to the transmission, you know, the one with the round bushing that wears out and it gets all sloppy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
As for the noise, you said a whining noise? Like a worn out skateboard bearing noise? That sounds like a throwout bearing.
Yes exactly, like when you go to spin the wheel and it buzzes and whines. It was initially doing this noise when I tried to get it to go in gear until we retorqued the pressure plate. Not a grinding, but a high pitched buzz/whine. Is there a way to correct this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
What had you initially had your pressure plate bolts torqued to??? 19ft-lb is the correct spec, I usually do that or 2-3 more.
I wanna say around 40? It was making the noise trying to push the shifter into gear, now it only makes the noise when the clutch is fully depressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
What side of the clutch appeared to have the wear on them? The trans side or the motor side?
It was the tophat side. So, it should have been transmission side. The vibration springs themselves looked like they have been rubbed on, which doesn't seem to be normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
Now to make you feel better about some other things. I can already guarantee you that you have the right clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing combo going on because if you had bought the wrong clutch you wouldn't have been able to put the trans on, or the car wouldn't drive at all and you would hears some super fucked up noises
I hope so. There was so much confusion on the web. Also, thanks for the laugh at the end of that haha.

My main concern is that bearing style noise.

I'm unsure if we will be able to fix the transmission casing, there's a guy I know who will get rid of his for pretty cheap, so that will hopefully be a non issue.

Nobody else seems to have this much of an issue swapping from a automatic to a manual.

Thanks so far man!

- Brandon


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Old 07/13/2012, 07:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: Manual swap clutch disengagment issue.

The noise you are hearing is the throw-out bearing being pushed in too far, and it is causing the underside if the fingers to rub on the springs, and the outside of the TO bearing to rub on the fingers. Adjust your clutch pedal so that it has about 1-1.5" of free play before it starts action on the clutch.

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