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Old 08/29/2012, 12:27 AM   #26
Charlie Moua
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

sti stuff just as you requested.... lol


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Old 08/29/2012, 10:20 AM   #27
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

Haha thanks bro lol. The engine rebuild on subaru motors intimidates me. Me and friend were gonna rebuid a ej20 but once we took It apart I was like screw this haha.


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Old 08/29/2012, 10:07 PM   #28
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

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Originally Posted by Em1LuiSiR View Post
Haha thanks bro lol. The engine rebuild on subaru motors intimidates me. Me and friend were gonna rebuid a ej20 but once we took It apart I was like screw this haha.
yeah tell me about it.. it's not like a honda at all you really have to know them...


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Old 09/11/2012, 10:52 PM   #29
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

delete

Last edited by Charlie Moua; 06/25/2013 at 05:28 PM.

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Old 09/17/2012, 10:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

There are 2 things that I would like others to get out of this post.
1) why sometimes standard honing isn't good enough
2) why it may be a good idea to go with over-sized pistons


Before/after hot tanking & media blasting





Initially Jayme wanted us to just do standard hone which consist of:
- the tooling bit does reach/hone most of the sleeve
- places no load on the top end
- should at least have the mains torqued down....Some machine shops didn't even ask for the mains when I drop off my block.
- Cost on average $70-80




I informed him that with old high-milage / abused engines, it's expected that the cylinder walls will have some vertical tapper. I've measured a few honda blocks I've brought in from my shed of honda engines & also other customers; typically ranging from .004x at the top of the sleeve, downward to .001x near the bottom.



Most people don't know what their clearances are because they don't have the proper measuring tool
Most production machine shops won't tell you if you don't know to ask.
For those that are not aware of this, they just do a standard hone & reuse 81mm pistons with new rings.
That may be "okay" for most but certainly not preferable if you want to get the most from your rebuilt engine.




Here some information why honing torque plates are used.

When the cylinder head is torqued down (8 studs x 65-70lbs) it will distort sleeves.Therefore, cylinders can not be bored or honed accurately if cylinder dimensions change so significantly between honing & engine assembly. Rings won't seal well and scuffing is likely to occur if the engine overheats.


MAP has invested in having a B series torque plate (81-86mm).
The torque plate give maximum rigidity & closely simulate the stresses induced on the cylinder wall by the cylinder head is on.

Use honing torque plates address these issues (listed above). Using them results in more consistent tolerances, even wear, better sealing, more power.


This is the back side of the sleeves.


The front side of the walls showed even more wear.



It is visible that the top of the walls have the most wear, not allowing the tooling bit to hone.

I sent Jayme the pictures & tell him that the top of the sleeve had +.0038.
Jayme planned on installing used 81mm B16 pistons, but I'm sue there would of been a lot of piston slap.

Even though nobody likes to spend more money, you want to do it right the first time & not waste time/money on tearing it down a 2nd time.
I suggest Jayme getting over-sized 81.5mm NPR ITR pistons/rings for $110 shipped. Lucky the new pistons came in within 1 week.

2 of the pistons were slightly bigger.
This did not affect the boring process.
Any size in difference was noted & adjusted for when honing.






Fargo measuring each piston & measure each cylinder.
Fargo does have to set/calibrate the boring bar to make sure it takes out the right amount of material.







All done with boring.
Fargo installs torque plate to replicate load on sleeves.
Afterward it get's carefully honed to .0015 piston to wall clearance.








There will be people who choose to the cheaper route (std hone, re-use pistons) in order to save a few bucks off machining.
If you don't care about performance and just need something "good enough" than I'm sure any machine shop will do.

At end of the day, you get what you pay for.
Each customer has to decided where money will be best spent on their performance engines.
MAP's machining rates reflect ~ performance machining ~ quality control ~ customer dedication.



Thanks for your continued support of MAP & Jordan.
It is always rewarding to be part of peoples build.
I hoped you learned a few things along the way.
Charlie Moua






Last edited by Charlie Moua; 04/26/2013 at 01:08 PM.

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Old 09/18/2012, 09:17 AM   #31
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

Beautiful!


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Old 10/16/2012, 09:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

What are these guys spending for this kind of work? If you could possibly break it down.
Do you see alot of these Honda guys using block guards? What are your deep thoughts on those?

Lets not let this thread die! This is great and (to me) exciting to read about.


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Old 10/17/2012, 09:48 PM   #33
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by hflshane View Post
What are these guys spending for this kind of work? If you could possibly break it down.
Do you see alot of these Honda guys using block guards? What are your deep thoughts on those?

Lets not let this thread die! This is great and (to me) exciting to read about.
rates are pretty standard compared to most local machines shops.
The only thing that most shops won't have is the "torque" plate or serdi for valve job.

I'm no a believer in blockguards for NA or FI applications.
If you do install it, make sure it fit's properly, tack weld & then machine smooth weld.
I do find CCS interesting & willing to try it out but that's far form your typical block guard.


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Old 10/18/2012, 08:39 PM   #34
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

What's the serdi?

And the CCS?


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Old 10/19/2012, 09:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by hflshane View Post
What's the serdi?

And the CCS?



ccs is cylinder support system.


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Old 10/20/2012, 10:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

Do you guys sleeve blocks in house up there?
This is all extremely interesting to me. I used to tear down engines for a machine shop. But I unfortunately have no experience in machining.


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Old 10/25/2012, 02:13 PM   #37
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

we leave sleevings to the sleeving company so that they are responsible for any defective install.

there are great companies like golden eagle, benson, darton, erl


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Old 02/09/2013, 03:50 AM   #38
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

This is Nathan's GSR block for his LSV.
After seeing the results from Jayme's setup he's basically shooting for similar build

B18c
81.5mm ITR replica pistons
Hasting Rings
LS crank
LS rods + arp 8mm rod bolts (reconditioned)
Media blasted & hot tanked
Decked - Bored - Honed





OEM pistons are non-floating wrist.
In order to get old piston off the rods, the wrist must be carefully pressed out.
This can sometimes ruin the piston

However when you install new piston & wrist to stock honda rods it requires heating up the small end so the metal expands just enough to slide the wrist in place.

Here you can see each piston is assigned it's cylinder.








Adnan's Stg2 head
MAP race valve job
Media blasted ports, chambers & outside casting
Re-faced valves
Pressure tested chambers/valves










CNC Werx CCS B18c block
Shooting for some decent numbers
81mm Wiseco 10.1cr pistons

Race spec p2w clearance on the "loose" end, but nothing 30psi won't seal up as tight as a virgin.



before decking




After decking



New wiseco 81mm 10.1cr pistons
weight matched & sized perfectly to .0002-.003 of each other.






Honing with Torque plate

All done

Last edited by Charlie Moua; 04/24/2013 at 12:18 PM.

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Old 02/21/2013, 04:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~




B20B block... customer wanted us to install GE block guard.
We TIG welded in 4 spots to prevent any movement & decked it












sti head





Last edited by Charlie Moua; 02/21/2013 at 05:36 PM.

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Old 02/22/2013, 08:15 AM   #40
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

I'd love to work here. Just... perfect!


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Old 04/24/2013, 12:34 PM   #41
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

Fargo gapping rings & finished block assembly.





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Old 04/24/2013, 04:03 PM   #42
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

CSS Block?

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Old 04/26/2013, 08:54 AM   #43
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

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CSS Block?
yes sir


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Old 04/26/2013, 01:57 PM   #44
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

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yes sir
Is that yours? Or MAP building one for somebody else. I thought I remembered you saying you were going to build one.

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Old 04/29/2013, 11:22 PM   #45
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Default Re: engine building + machining process ~~~ pictures~~~

Quote:
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Is that yours? Or MAP building one for somebody else. I thought I remembered you saying you were going to build one.
yes this one is mine.


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Old 10/28/2020, 09:39 AM   #46
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