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Old 02/15/2012, 11:38 AM   #1
95hellatukd
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Default running e85

just wondering how much fuel pressure will be needed for my all motor setup running e85 i have a aem fpr but just wana know if it will give me enough fuel pressure with my 550 injectors and e85.

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Old 02/15/2012, 12:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: running e85

You dont neccesarily need to run "more" fuel pressure but it will help if your injectors are too small for the power you are trying to make. I would think at stock pressure the 550's will provide more than enough fuel for what you are doing. I'm assuming you are tuning the setup and not trying to compensate for E85 by running more fuel pressure instead of tuning?


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Old 02/15/2012, 01:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: running e85

yeah I am having tuned I just wana make sure that the aem fpr will be enough. Just don't wana pay to have it tuned then have fuel issues at high rpm or anything like that. I know e85 take 35-40% more so I have the bigger injectors fuel pump and regulator. Just wana make sure its all gonna work before I get to the dyno

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Old 02/15/2012, 02:26 PM   #4
H22APWRD94
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Default Re: running e85

Just set it at a base pressure of 45 psi. Should work out just fine for you.

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Old 02/16/2012, 12:04 AM   #5
Charlie Moua
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Default Re: running e85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosko View Post
You dont neccesarily need to run "more" fuel pressure but it will help if your injectors are too small for the power you are trying to make. I would think at stock pressure the 550's will provide more than enough fuel for what you are doing. I'm assuming you are tuning the setup and not trying to compensate for E85 by running more fuel pressure instead of tuning?

correct...

Most of the guys turbo & na guys in mn run stock FPR and just larger injectors.
500whp boosted Bvtec still rocking stock fpr.

If it works don't change it. I've yet to see any real gains from spending money on a nicer FPR (not b&m) on setups which don't require it like sub 600whp applications.


The only time I've seen someone run higher fuel pressure is because they were maxing out their injectors and still needed more fuel

Common to see something like :
450cc injector budget d16 turbo, needing more fuel at 250whp e85 and we have to slightly turn up the fuel pressure to 60psi or so.


however i have heard of NA guys using ID injectors who say that running higher fuel pressure of 75-80psi somehow provided better gains and spray pattern and made more power... but these are setups which are +300whp na setups.

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Old 04/26/2012, 10:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: running e85

id say e85 is over rated and messes things up slowly but surely plus it seems to produce an awful lot of water vapor i can only think what that could be doing to gas tank etc etc

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Old 04/26/2012, 10:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: running e85

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Originally Posted by hondadnoh View Post
id say e85 is over rated and messes things up slowly but surely plus it seems to produce an awful lot of water vapor i can only think what that could be doing to gas tank etc etc
Have you looked into all the benefits of E85? It is an amazing fuel. And it only gets better as you get to making more power with better parts.

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Old 04/27/2012, 12:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: running e85

E85 has its ups and downs when they make it that blend is different then the next blend so when you tune it they won't be the same , this was something I learned while working at hydro Klean and talking to some of the guys that work on the plants in Iowa

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Old 04/27/2012, 12:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: running e85

i sure have mr the question is have youuuu did your full looking into ??? >>>We all love E85.
It's cheap, it cools our intake charge, it reduces combustion and exhaust gas temeratures, and it does a fine job of resisting detonation.

The internet is full of articles describing its finer qualities, and if you believe everything you read, you might think that it is pure magic.

While alcohol offers many advantages when used as a racing fuel, it is not a magic cure all elixir, and there are a few things you should know before going on a binge

Hygroscopicity

The first and most important thing you need to know about alcohol is that it is hygroscopic. Hygroscopic means that it will readily absorb moisture from its surroundings. In our case, the "surroundings" would be the atmsophere, and that atmosphere contains water. The higher the humidity, the greater the amount of water, and the greater the rate of water absorption by the alcohol.

The picture below shows a typical valve from a modern ball and seat style injector. The ball shaped portion of the valve that makes contact with the seat is made from super secret alloy known only to the injector gods, but the armature is made from a fairly traditional high iron content alloy which will rust in a heart beat if it is exposed to water.

Inconsistent Ethanol Content

The whole point of running E85 is to take advantage of the superior properties of ethanol, right? And E85 means 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline right?

Not exactly.

Referring to "ASTM D5798-11 Standard Specification for Ethanol Fuel Blends for Flexible-Fuel Automotive Spark-Ignition Engines" we see that the 85 in E85 signifies a maximum ethanol content of 85% with the remainder being "unleaded gasoline, gasoline blendstocks for oxygenate blending (BOB), natural gasoline, or other hydrocarbons in the gasoline boiling range."

Clear enough. 85% Ethanol and 15% WTF-ever, right?

Not exactly.

The 85 percent doesn't refer to pure ethanol, but to denatured fuel ethanol which already contains 2% gasoline to make it "unsuitable for beverage use under a forumla approved by a regulatory agency to prevent the imposition of beverage alcohol tax."

The real meaning of that bit of lawyer-speak horseshit is that E85 has a maximum ethanol content of 83%.

And that defines our maximum, so what about our minimum?

Are you sitting down?

The original specification set the minimum ethanol content at 75% which was lowered to 68% in June of 2010, and lowered again to 51% in June of 2011. As of February 2012, this is the current specification and E85 purchased from the pump could have an ethanol content as low as 51% and still be within spec.


would u like me to keep posting ?? i mean i can careless if you run it or not but in the end i guess i wont be the one looking like a dumb ass with alot of issues

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Old 04/27/2012, 08:20 AM   #10
H22APWRD94
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Default Re: running e85

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadnoh View Post
i sure have mr the question is have youuuu did your full looking into ??? >>>We all love E85.
It's cheap, it cools our intake charge, it reduces combustion and exhaust gas temeratures, and it does a fine job of resisting detonation.

The internet is full of articles describing its finer qualities, and if you believe everything you read, you might think that it is pure magic.

While alcohol offers many advantages when used as a racing fuel, it is not a magic cure all elixir, and there are a few things you should know before going on a binge

Hygroscopicity

The first and most important thing you need to know about alcohol is that it is hygroscopic. Hygroscopic means that it will readily absorb moisture from its surroundings. In our case, the "surroundings" would be the atmsophere, and that atmosphere contains water. The higher the humidity, the greater the amount of water, and the greater the rate of water absorption by the alcohol.

The picture below shows a typical valve from a modern ball and seat style injector. The ball shaped portion of the valve that makes contact with the seat is made from super secret alloy known only to the injector gods, but the armature is made from a fairly traditional high iron content alloy which will rust in a heart beat if it is exposed to water.

Inconsistent Ethanol Content

The whole point of running E85 is to take advantage of the superior properties of ethanol, right? And E85 means 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline right?

Not exactly.

Referring to "ASTM D5798-11 Standard Specification for Ethanol Fuel Blends for Flexible-Fuel Automotive Spark-Ignition Engines" we see that the 85 in E85 signifies a maximum ethanol content of 85% with the remainder being "unleaded gasoline, gasoline blendstocks for oxygenate blending (BOB), natural gasoline, or other hydrocarbons in the gasoline boiling range."

Clear enough. 85% Ethanol and 15% WTF-ever, right?

Not exactly.

The 85 percent doesn't refer to pure ethanol, but to denatured fuel ethanol which already contains 2% gasoline to make it "unsuitable for beverage use under a forumla approved by a regulatory agency to prevent the imposition of beverage alcohol tax."

The real meaning of that bit of lawyer-speak horseshit is that E85 has a maximum ethanol content of 83%.

And that defines our maximum, so what about our minimum?

Are you sitting down?

The original specification set the minimum ethanol content at 75% which was lowered to 68% in June of 2010, and lowered again to 51% in June of 2011. As of February 2012, this is the current specification and E85 purchased from the pump could have an ethanol content as low as 51% and still be within spec.


would u like me to keep posting ?? i mean i can careless if you run it or not but in the end i guess i wont be the one looking like a dumb ass with alot of issues
Good job of copying and pasting from the ID website there. ID Website Yes, I have done my research. Did it a long time ago. Been reading on this stuff for years. We can test knowledge, but you will run out quickly. No disrespect, but until you have actually used it, and understand it, you will forever be misinformed, and blind to it. I left a half tank sitting all winter, probably E70ish, as I did not test it. Been driving on it already this spring. Watch my AFR's like a hawk. Just picked up some new pump E85 wednesday night. Filled the tank in the car, and put 5 in my fuel jug as well. I will be testing the new stuff here shortly. When I look to get really serious with my pursuits, I will be going to a strictly race blend of E85 made by Ignite Racing Fuels. In case you have not noticed, many of the fastest cars out there are running some sort of Ethanol blend. It has proven itself time and again, and it will never stop being used.

Edit: removed a portion of my comment that was not beneficial, and written out of annoyance.

Last edited by H22APWRD94; 04/27/2012 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 04/27/2012, 11:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: running e85

We can all read stuff and clearly you have not run e85. I have been running it for two years and problem free. I clean my injectors over winter but they are clean as they day they were put in. I test my fuel before I fill up. Right now in the west des moines area its all e70.
I have been informed that Iowa will be going to e70 year round with no other blends. I'm not 100% sure on this but we should be hitting the spring mix. I am still making a ton of power over pump gas even on e70 so I will continue to use that. If it comes down to it you can buy e98 by the barrel a hell of a lot cheaper than race gas.
The biggest thing that I'm worried about is errors at the gas station. Check your fuel and watch your afr before it claims your motor.


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Old 04/27/2012, 11:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: running e85

Recently I've been running super rich.. I wonder if the E70 is the cause.. I am in the P-hill area.

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Old 04/27/2012, 11:31 PM   #13
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Default Re: running e85

That would definitely do it Tommy. The blend would have lower ethanol content with more gasoline in it, leaving you over compensated.

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Old 04/27/2012, 11:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: running e85

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Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
That would definitely do it Tommy. The blend would have lower ethanol content with more gasoline in it, leaving you over compensated.
WOW, i'm running 10's WOT in boost.. That would explain it.

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Old 04/28/2012, 10:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: running e85

Damn. I am currently seeing high 11's low 12's, which makes it nasty fun. You are using the AEM WB, correct? New unit?

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Old 04/28/2012, 12:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: running e85

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Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
Damn. I am currently seeing high 11's low 12's, which makes it nasty fun. You are using the AEM WB, correct? New unit?
Correct. Used..

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Old 04/28/2012, 12:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: running e85

What condition was the sensor itself in? I bought my gauge used from Pirate, but ordered a new sensor from JB.

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Old 04/28/2012, 03:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: running e85

I wouldn't recommend e85 unless someone is looking for an alternative to water/meth. It smells, you have to get your car re tuned 2-3 times a year because it's not a consistent fuel, it loves to collect water vapors, cold starts are a bitch if it'll even start that is, fuel mileage is god awful (might as well run a v8 if that's what you're looking for.)

It's an over rated fuel, that's all there is to it. Yes it does have some major benefits, but that's only when you're using for a good reason, not just to be "cool". If you convert a stock motor to e85 you're just wasting your time, creating more headaches for yourself and not gaining anything except a hurt wallet. I'm tired of kids asking about this shit.


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Old 04/28/2012, 03:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: running e85

Mine is pulling anywhere from 20-25 MPG and I drive it like I stole it quite a bit.

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Old 04/28/2012, 04:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: running e85

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Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
Mine is pulling anywhere from 20-25 MPG and I drive it like I stole it quite a bit.
How!? I'm only getting 9-11mpg


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Old 04/28/2012, 08:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: running e85

Last year, my long trip back from KC, it pulled 22 mpg. And as a few of my trip buddies can tell you, I did a few pulls. Honestly, under low throttle, it is anywhere from low 14's to low 16's AFR. And at WOT, it never gets below 11.5 Tuner did a great job with it. Now just a little clean up on start up (don't have my IACV hooked up) and dial the BBG, and it will be all gravy. Start up is better after I played with my ECT corrections, but it definitely still needs the IACV so I don't have to hold it at a steady RPM, and the IACV motor can do that work for me.

I will be logging this fresh tank for mileage as well. It really surprised me, to be honest. I was figuring on mid teens considering my LS with the GSR trans pulled mid to high 20's on gas.

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Old 04/28/2012, 08:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: running e85

The sensor was lightly used and I was told it worked fine. Mileage on my car isn't terrible as long as I'm not beating on it.

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Old 04/28/2012, 10:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: running e85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Technick View Post
I wouldn't recommend e85 unless someone is looking for an alternative to water/meth. It smells, you have to get your car re tuned 2-3 times a year because it's not a consistent fuel, it loves to collect water vapors, cold starts are a bitch if it'll even start that is, fuel mileage is god awful (might as well run a v8 if that's what you're looking for.)

It's an over rated fuel, that's all there is to it. Yes it does have some major benefits, but that's only when you're using for a good reason, not just to be "cool". If you convert a stock motor to e85 you're just wasting your time, creating more headaches for yourself and not gaining anything except a hurt wallet. I'm tired of kids asking about this shit.
I can only disagree with this whole post. I had my car tuned two years ago with a minor tweak last year due to added parts. My car is still going strong no issues. I let a tank of e85 sit in my car over winter tested it in the spring and it test e83 which I could't complain about. What kind of cold starts are you doing? I have had no issues with cold starts. Sounds like a tuning issues to me. Mileage you use 30% more fuel of course its going to be worse mileage. I don't even watch mileage since I go to an event or get on it. Still way cheaper than race gas. I'm not sure who is converting to e85 to be "cool" everyone I know of is doing it for performance gains.


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Old 04/30/2012, 09:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: running e85

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Originally Posted by XcreatonX View Post
I can only disagree with this whole post. I had my car tuned two years ago with a minor tweak last year due to added parts. My car is still going strong no issues. I let a tank of e85 sit in my car over winter tested it in the spring and it test e83 which I could't complain about. What kind of cold starts are you doing? I have had no issues with cold starts. Sounds like a tuning issues to me. Mileage you use 30% more fuel of course its going to be worse mileage. I don't even watch mileage since I go to an event or get on it. Still way cheaper than race gas. I'm not sure who is converting to e85 to be "cool" everyone I know of is doing it for performance gains.
I agree. A few years ago my old setup would fire right up in the middle of winter, 20 below and that was even at 14:1 compression. Tuning is deffinately what it takes. Its not so simple as to scale the injectors to get it to work, you've got to tune the whole map, startup, warmup etc to get it to fire up and idle. Its not easy, those are hard things to tune and get nailed down, but once done you should be problem free.

I also send out the injectors every season to get cleaned, only time I ever had a problem was when I left Cam2 in the system over the winter. Since switching to E85 they have always came back good as new.

E85 is also alot more forgiving as far as AFR goes. The whole E70/E85 bit has never really bothered me. Unless your tune is on the ragged edge I dont see it being a problem.

Last edited by Rosko; 04/30/2012 at 09:32 AM.

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Old 04/30/2012, 09:33 AM   #25
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Default Re: running e85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
The sensor was lightly used and I was told it worked fine. Mileage on my car isn't terrible as long as I'm not beating on it.
The sensors dont ever seem to last very long, I usually end up replacing one every year or so.


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