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Old 02/10/2012, 08:18 AM   #1
crxh22honda
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Default just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

This is so close To my build an i just found it.


http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2678353

Nah2b
90×95mm=2416cc
skunk2 pro 3
RLZ PNP
13.5 to 1 compression
B series tranny
2060lbs


Mine
88.5×100=2461cc
BisiMoto stage 3
12.1to 1 comp
RLZ will be PNP my head now to lol
T2t4
2040lbs


Ok so here is a few questions. The more an more I read about BisiMoto the more I get worried. I basically have everything from them. But the more I try an look for Dynos on h22 bisi cams stage 3 I can't find any! An I've now seen a few skunk2 pro3 ran. All great numbers! Since i already have the bisi I'm gonna see what i can get out of them. But does anyone else think I should switch? I've heard they need alot more compression then what i have. I went with 12.1 comp cause our gas is really shitting around here an i wanna be able to drive it around from time to time on the streets. Thats also why I kept my bore to 88.5mm. I'm afraid of running E85 cause I've heard they change there blend alot around here. An this motor has cost a pretty penny an i don't wanna fuck with that. Another reason why I kept the compression where it is at.

Finally I'm thinking about switch to h2b. But I wanna keep my hood with out cutting a hole. I've seen it done a few time. An i wanna know what mounts they used. But havnt been able to find it. They also all had jdm front ends. so they had more clearance cause of the siR hood. Also I wanna when you use h2b do you still have to relocate drive side:teeth (passenger side for USA folks) motor mount. Like you do with doing a h22 swap. Or is it like using b series mounts.

Last edited by crxh22honda; 02/10/2012 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 02/10/2012, 09:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrxQf...e_gdata_player


Amazing!!!

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Old 02/10/2012, 11:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

I like that build because I know how much work went into it.
BUT, I think your making it seem easier than it really is.
and for that reason noobies might read this and think "wow, sooo eeeeezy"

Far from the truth.

About that company....remember what i warned you about when we met.....
When your about to dump a good amount of money into some "custom" build and what to "rep" a company, you gotta know the right questions to ask or else you'll get jerk around.

They make nice products & have done great things form the import scene no question, but that doesn't allow them the freedom of their actions which many have argued to be a matter of ethics/marketing flaw.

There's no benefit in me telling you this, but very few times to i see people like you who actually STICK with their cars over the years like I have. If you were some kid who's gone through 10civics so far i'd just let you learn the hard way. lol

also you have a 100mm stroke.
You'll make great midrange and topend... but i don't know many setups (non all race guys) who have rocked the 97mm f23 crank or even a 100mm crank and have little issues.

check the bearing every season if you drive it hard and past 8500rpms and replace bearings as needed before having to deal with fork over cash for a new 100mm crank.
Just my warning.

Props to you build cause it's different and made of decent parts.
BUT don't skimp out on injectors, get some nice bosh style ID/FIC injectors, you'll be able to fine tune idle with those big NA cams & vtec crossover.... my guess vtec cross over will be +6500rpms for best results (just a guess don't flame me lol).
Also a lot of power depends on your tuner and if he knows how to get the most out of your injectors/cams ect... your setup is not normal, your tuner should be working from a blank map, and be willing to try multiple different approaches to getting the best powerband you like. (my tuner can) lol


Here's something you'll learn.... with NA setups, you just cant "copy" someone else build.
I'm not saying you are, i'm just saying even if the setup is very similar the outcomes are much different.

I've seen this countless of times.... more times than I wish i had where people come in and they say their car should make X amount of power because someone on honda-tech or their buddies buddy's setup did it and the should be able to do it also.


perfect example.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2992328

Now see my post in that thread... read it.
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/14...ed-advice.html


I'm not showing off, I'm just saying that even if we tried to copy this exact same setup again we might not get the exact results. maybe withing 5-10whp margin of error.
cause people have PM P.R.E (tou) and ask if they can build their engines like it and tou just says "be my guess, give it a try, but don't expect the exact same results".

get what i'm trying to say?
Were good boss.
I'd like to see you finish that beast of yours.


cheers - charlie moua

Last edited by Charlie Moua; 02/10/2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 02/10/2012, 12:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

I really don't think I will be near 325 my compression just isn't there. An I'm still questioning if kinser itbs is the best route. An i bought BisiMoto injector. :(

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Old 02/10/2012, 12:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by crxh22honda View Post
I really don't think I will be near 325 my compression just isn't there. An I'm still questioning if kinser itbs is the best route. An i bought BisiMoto injector. :(
YOU DON'T need wicked compression to make power.

wtf they sell Bisimotor injectors now..... man i'll never hear the end of it.


ITB are a PITA to tune.
sound cool & make great power
BUT bang for buck, stick with a decent design plenum...

from 1st and 2nd and experiance.
One of the local h2b guys made 235whp with kinser itb and pro2 cams... but recently sold it for another manifold setup.....

ITB for most non-hard core racers, it adds stunna/hardpark/stance (whatever the current term is) points... lol
if you can afford it go ahead but just be able to explain it when people ask you why you got it.

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Old 02/10/2012, 12:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Well don't you think that guys main problem is he used to big of cams. For his comp.

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Old 02/10/2012, 12:42 PM   #7
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Quote Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Also I'm gonna take it to pro function. To get it tuned hopefully they don't screw me over.


Also I would like to add I didn't know of his build tell this morning lol. so i didn't copy.

Last edited by crxh22honda; 02/10/2012 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 02/10/2012, 12:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

as for your other questions.
if bisi is willing to give you the cam card in advance, anyone who knows how to degree a motor will tell you if they are decent specs.


now if they will beat pro3, i'm doubtful.
will they have a better powerband, maybe...

I'm going to be running rocket custom cams for the H.
They will be better than pro2 but as crazy as pro3 cam profile.

You don't NEED high compression to run big cams, you just won't get your TRUE values worth. You may even see better results going with pro2 and 12cr vs. the powerband of pro3 and 12cr. it's about the balance of parts, when in doubt ask a engine builder or someone else who's experiance you trust.


As for the h2b and hood clearance, your assed out
I've only seen 2 ef which the motor & manifold clear the stock hood or even jdm hood.
1 had some old mounts made by http://www.explicitspeedperformance....H22ACrxHF.html
The other one was CUSTOM mounts.

BOTH provide lower than normal oil pan clearance.
I hate the hood vent look.... looks retarded BUT if it came down to peice of mind with decent oil pan clearnce or proping the rear hood... i vote prop the rear hood with $8 worth of hardware.


IF your current h motor/htranny combo clears your hood just work with that.
If you want to work on your gearing to keep up with other h2b guys, your lucky cause I have a qauife LSD unit (slightly use) but 100% still kick ass condition & 5.15 final drive sure to wake up your motor...

stock h22 4.26 fd ....70mph 3600rpms
mfactory h22 4.6 fd ...70mph 4300rpms
translates to about 9% crank power gained through gearing efficiency & means dyno numbers will be higher.

LMK if you want both.
LSD is over $780 new
FD is over $700 new
I'll sell both for $1100 .........



new custom mounts will cost you $500 probably
and you have to buy a B tranny.

Give me $1100 + $380 and i'll even install the lsd & fd myself.
$150 if you want me to throughly clean your tranny case and gears in chemical tank & pressure washer
and if you wan to fork over extra cash for new syncro get them and I'll install them for free since i'm already in there.

Last edited by Charlie Moua; 02/10/2012 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 02/10/2012, 03:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Hey where you setting me up with tht cam card business lol. An with the lsd. My t2t4 has one. An its all "brand new" from hmo. I'm ok with the final drive

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Old 02/10/2012, 03:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Bisi has cam cards? Who knew.

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Old 02/10/2012, 04:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

.

Last edited by crxh22honda; 02/10/2012 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 02/10/2012, 04:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

They said ill get the specs. With the cams atleast

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Old 02/10/2012, 08:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by H22APWRD94 View Post
Bisi has cam cards? Who knew.
haha.....

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Old 02/10/2012, 08:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by crxh22honda View Post
Well don't you think that guys main problem is he used to big of cams. For his comp.
Are you asking me :
"do you think his main problem was using too big of a cam profile based off the engine compression?"





Quote:
Originally Posted by crxh22honda View Post
Also I'm gonna take it to pro function. To get it tuned hopefully they don't screw me over.

Also I would like to add I didn't know of his build tell this morning lol. so i didn't copy.
So your willing to take it to a shop that your "hoping" doesn't screw you over?

Am i missing something here?

I don't follow your logic in that decision. Take it to a shop that comes highly recommended & a tuner who will do what it takes to get the most out of your setup. If you'r iffy about a shop, do more research, ask questions and if that doesn't help put you at ease about letting them touch your car & giving them your hard earn cash, then walk away. better safe then sorry.

I'm not saying you copied that guys build. I'm saying that you can't assume it's simple & you'll achieve the same similar power. The way you titled your thread, it sure seem that you discoverd something simple/easy & proven. Just be mindful of that is all.

Cheers - charlie moua

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Old 02/10/2012, 09:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Pro function is a highly recommend, an also rep is very good. But first build an also this isn't my life ya know. I just wanna have some fun.

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Old 02/10/2012, 09:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Also more than this one thread time after time I seeing people with higher comp an people talking about to run pro3 your gonna need really high compression

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Old 02/11/2012, 09:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by crxh22honda View Post
Also more than this one thread time after time I seeing people with higher comp an people talking about to run pro3 your gonna need really high compression
Keep in mind 2009...

that's what they use to say about pro2 cams in b series too.
11.9cr pump gas bseries pro2 9500rpms = 240whp stock block.

As for h series pro3... i'd say 12.5 is just fine

If you didn't want to go e85 + higher compression you may have want to have thought about going with Pro2 or even pro1...

Pro1's have made +245whp setups like 90x95 13.5cr
or 230whp on 87x90 stock compression.

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Old 02/11/2012, 01:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Moua View Post
Keep in mind 2009...

that's what they use to say about pro2 cams in b series too.
11.9cr pump gas bseries pro2 9500rpms = 240whp stock block.

As for h series pro3... i'd say 12.5 is just fine

If you didn't want to go e85 + higher compression you may have want to have thought about going with Pro2 or even pro1...

Pro1's have made +245whp setups like 90x95 13.5cr
or 230whp on 87x90 stock compression.

That would be a pretty sad day making 245whp 90mm×95mm 13.5compression.

No matter how you cut it. 1957cc stock compression making 230whp that's great.
2418cc 13.5 compression same cam 245whp 15 more out of the same cam. Junk intake manifold or header, improper tune.



Also tho that's pretty freaking good with the 230wp makes me wondering what else it has done to it

Last edited by crxh22honda; 02/11/2012 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 02/12/2012, 12:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by crxh22honda View Post
That would be a pretty sad day making 245whp 90mm×95mm 13.5compression.
90x95 + 13.5cr + pro1 cams = 245whp .... tell me how that would suck?


90x95 + pro3 you easily hit 270whp unless your cams are not properly degreed and your tuner lacks skill.

But what do i know... lol

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Old 02/15/2012, 08:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Moua View Post
90x95 + 13.5cr + pro1 cams = 245whp .... tell me how that would suck?


90x95 + pro3 you easily hit 270whp unless your cams are not properly degreed and your tuner lacks skill.

But what do i know... lol
I didn't say you didn't know anything.

All I'm saying is that if you spent the money to do a h23/h22 bored it 90mm. An than bought pro1 made 245whp. Maybe his tq n power lines where better. But still if you where gonna do all that why go with pro1 maybe not go all out but something that would add a bit more power.

But then if you had a bone stockh22 like your making it sound 230whp is very impressive. Just with pro 1 that's why I questioned I wondered what else he has done.

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Old 02/15/2012, 02:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

You are deffinately going to make better power with the Skunk cams, hands down there is no better off the shelf cam for H series. I'm pretty sure I told you this before but sometimes it falls on deaf ears when Bisimoto parts are involved. They seem to have a way with hype-ing their parts up and throwing out irresistable "package" deals that get noobs all antzy in their pants lol (no offense man, seriously we were all there once). They are still decent parts, but I dont feel they are the best available for the H serues. I also dont know why but people seem to love to hate on Skunk2, it must be the "cool" thing to do these days. One person says something, another reapeats and so on and so forth till it gets out of hand just like how that "bounty" thread blew up. Its ridiculous. Nobodys products are perfect, especially in a racing environment where everything is being pushed to the limits. I can't speak for the other series of Honda motors but for the H series I have yet to see a better off the shelf cam besides Skun2k. I've ran Pro1,2, and 3, and I've even ran Rockets M24x cams which I felt were terrible. Check out my build thread in my signature. My motor started out as a Pro2 motor @12:1 compression and then I moved up to Pro3's @14:1 compression. The thread documents most of that testing pretty well. Chances are you arent going to be able to duplicate Randy's (naH2b) build or numbers, or mine or anyone elses for that matter just by getting the same parts. There are certain things and details that you just don't post on the internet and builds arent always as simple as a parts list to duplicate. I know things about Randy's build that most people will probably never know because I've swapped advice with him many times. BUT you can take a look at what some of these guys are running and get a pretty good start in the right direction. I don't pay much attention to the civic crown but I do know that Randy (nah2B) has the record for the "fastest h2b street all motor" car. I know in the Prelude scene the majority of the top 10 fastest Preludes are either running Pro3's or Pro2's, that ought to tell you something right there haha.

I'll be honest, I've left the Pro3's behind this season and went with a custom roller setup. Dyno numbers look promising, but track testing will tell the real story. I'm deffinately excited to see what it does.

Also whatever you do, dont get hung up on dyno numbers. A dyno is a tuning tool, nothing more. I do all my tuning out in Waukee at Lunds. My "race" motor makes 255whp out there, most people would think thats low for what I have. A stock Euro-R motor made 168whp on that same dyno, I would expect a stock H22 to make in the upper 150's. I've seen another Prelude from the east coast make over 300 on an almost identical setup as mine, however our cars ran the same times at the track. Just keep that in mind and dont get discouraged if its not what you hoped for.

If you already have the Bisi stuff then you might as well run it. That CRX will be fun as hell regardless, and you may want to invest some of that extra cash in getting that power to the ground.


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Old 02/15/2012, 03:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

I only skimmed read ill check it out when I have more time. But yes I feel like I got busted a bit with bisi so well see. What do u meaning getting the power to the ground. My plans are for pic select suspension.an I already have explicit speed 360 traction bar system. I'm gonna get b&h slicks with lenso rims. Is there something I'm missing or a bad choice? Before I make another mistake. Cause really ill be buying them very soon.

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Old 02/15/2012, 03:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

What bushings do you have in the car? Clutch setup and LSD? Motor mounts? And the biggest of all, alignment. All very important parts when it comes to putting the power to the ground. That traction bar is great, but there is other things you can do to supplement it because it still will not cut down your wheel movement in the wheel well completely. The old DA/EF suspension geometry and design is not ideal. Rosko is dealing with the same design in the Prelude. I have grown to hate it. There are guys that are making rear traction bars for those front LCA's because they still flex with a regular t-bar on it. I will see if I can find the H-T link that was discussing it.

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Old 02/15/2012, 03:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by crxh22honda View Post
I only skimmed read ill check it out when I have more time. But yes I feel like I got busted a bit with bisi so well see. What do u meaning getting the power to the ground. My plans are for pic select suspension.an I already have explicit speed 360 traction bar system. I'm gonna get b&h slicks with lenso rims. Is there something I'm missing or a bad choice? Before I make another mistake. Cause really ill be buying them very soon.
Exactly what Mike said. For suspension I havent heard of pic, but I could be out of the loop. On my Prelude I am running Tokicko whites with Skunk2 springs, nothing crazy but its effective and allows me to shift weight front to back by playing with the ride height and shock firmness.

The traction bar was a huge help to me, bushings and things like that all need to be looked at as well. Remember your car is probably 20+ years old. I have a spherical bearing kit I will be installing in place of the bushings in my lower control arms. That is going to free up some movenent in those and stiffen them up at the same time.

I'm also going to purchase a set of scales this season and really get my suspension dialed in. Caster/Cabmer/Toe in and out/axle angle are all things I will be addressing to gain some "free" power. Anything you can do to get the tires to hook off the line is going to pay off big at the other end of the track.

Mike I like your idea of running a dual traction bar, I may look into that!


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Old 02/15/2012, 04:27 PM   #25
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Default Re: just simple amazing nah2b 325hp

I saw it on a thread on HT just last week. It got bumped from over a year ago. It was an EF guy that was complaining about wheel movement. On the EG/DC/EK, there is already a 3 point attachment for the LCA. You are adding a 4th when you add the T-bar, really creating a trapezoid, and making it multi-planar in the strength and its resistance to deflection. On the BB/EF/DA, there are the same 3 points, but when you put on a traction bar, you are replacing the 3rd point, not adding a 4th. The 4th point is what matters. It does not necessarily bind it, but it ties it together on multiple planes making movement less because it can't move.

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